Upcoming Mage Changes in 3.1 - Page 100

Lerxst · 03/30/09, 4:57 PM

I think a far, far larger concern for Arcane is the state of evocation and Ulduar's increased raid damage/movement. This one thing has a much larger effect on DPS than ABarr coefficient and ABlast debuff combined.

Unfortunately, I agree with a previous poster who said we're unlikely to see further Mage changes, and that most likely means Evocation is staying the way it is.

Omnia · 03/30/09, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by n0m0j0

Fire will scale much better than arcane itemization, with both spell power coefficients and superior critical strike damage multipliers favoring fireball.

The numbers confirm that. (Using the BiS across Ulduar items that Rawr currently includes.)

Originally Posted by n0m0j0

If we have any stop-and-go or hi burn/slow burn rotational phases, aggressive arcane mages will be highly effective with dynamic opportunities thanks to better threat management as well as mana dump/burst potential.

The catch is that stop-and-go favors Arcane only as long as its highest burn cycle is better than the Fire/FFB rotation. But as things are now, Fire/FFB is close to baseline ABspam3MBAM, and the main bursty advantage of Arcane is Arcane Power / IV. With that in mind, that gives FFB some 'intangible' points over Fire, for having IV.

Originally Posted by Pasture

1. Return the Arcane Barrage co-efficient to what it was before. It didn't need nerfing in the first place. Lots of Arcane mages ran around BGs spamming it but Arcane was never massively viable at high end PvP. Definitely playable but in no way dominant and certainly didn't need the nerf.

Besides fixing Evocation (which GC mentioned they'd try to do sometime), I believe reverting the Abarr coefficient is the only easy change they'd be willing to consider this late before patch. Not groundbreaking but it would help a bit.

galzohar · 03/30/09, 5:12 PM

Assuming both specs end fight with 0 mana, they both get similar losses from evocation interrupts, since arcane has 2X as many chances to get interrupted but only loses 1/2 the relative mana (not losing exactly the same though due to different mana-starved DPS capability and different gains from other mana regen factors, but it's not far off). If, however, the fight is short enough for fire to not need the full evocation in the firstplace, then arcane is put at an overall disadvantage.

Stae · 03/30/09, 7:18 PM

They really need to do something about evocate if they wanna keep Arcane Competitive.

The spec relies so heavily on getting that 60% mana back from Evocating.

A suggestion I saw on here a few (hundred?) posts back about making it a cast time (maybe 2 second cast time) to get back 15% mana and throwing a small cooldown on it (I dunno 30 seconds? i'm not quite sure what would be balanced at this point) seemed like a really good way to fix it.

Of course, like I said the numbers would definitely have to be tweaked, but I still think that's a good solution.

We don't lose it if we gotta move, there's no real interruption save raid damage pushing it back, it can be kicked in PVP.

I don't really know just throwing out a suggestion I thought was a good idea.

galzohar · 03/30/09, 8:07 PM

Easiest solution would be to ADD a cast time spell that does the same thing, has the same cooldown and shares cooldown with evocation. Or do any of a bunch of other ideas, really - there are so many that they just need to pick (same thing I said in the "fix frost raiding" thread). Another one of them is designing fights that let you evocate, but there are seriously endless options to solutions here.

Jarlyn · 03/30/09, 8:15 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Easiest solution would be to ADD a cast time spell that does the same thing, has the same cooldown and shares cooldown with evocation. Or do any of a bunch of other ideas, really - there are so many that they just need to pick (same thing I said in the "fix frost raiding" thread). Another one of them is designing fights that let you evocate, but there are seriously endless options to solutions here.

This. The topic of how to fix Evo is beyond beating a dead horse at this point. Blizzard has already stated that they're aware of our concerns. If they want to fix Evo, they will.

yallazon · 03/30/09, 10:01 PM

Would changing evocation to a more constant mana regeneration model, similar to the way drinking water works, help? That way we would still get some mana back rather than missing a tick if damage is taken, etc.

Stae · 03/30/09, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Easiest solution would be to ADD a cast time spell that does the same thing, has the same cooldown and shares cooldown with evocation. Or do any of a bunch of other ideas, really - there are so many that they just need to pick (same thing I said in the "fix frost raiding" thread). Another one of them is designing fights that let you evocate, but there are seriously endless options to solutions here.

If it's one thing almost all mages agree on is this.

Dannemmar · 03/31/09, 4:36 AM

Originally Posted by Eyegore

Indeed my current idea is using my dual specs for a fire boss/single target spec, and a frost with torment trash/aoe spec.

For pure AOE dmg what's about this spec ?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Ezu · 03/31/09, 5:16 AM

I struggle to keep up with mana without the Mana Gem glyph at the moment sometimes depending on how good raid dps is as 18-53 fire/totw, I'd probably have to use evocation on most fights If I did not have the mana gem glyph so my question is how the hell are we supposed to swap in the LB glyph for it while using 1. Glyph of Molten Armor, 2. Glyph of Fireball. 3. Glyph of Mana Gem in Uludar when the fights are supposed to actually last longer than what we deal with now. I am going to assume that LB crit ticks ruin your ignites so whats the point of even having it?

(I mana pot before even thinking about evocate always)

Vardur · 03/31/09, 5:22 AM

Which Glyphs might be recommended with 3.1 für the 18/53/0? On live i'm running on improved scorch, fireball and molten armor. if another one gives scorch, i can change it of course. But if i might be the only mage with scorch, which one should be overwritten for the benefit of ? I think i might switch molten armor for living bomb. What do you think?

Callix · 03/31/09, 6:24 AM

Originally Posted by Vardur

Which Glyphs might be recommended with 3.1 für the 18/53/0? On live i'm running on improved scorch, fireball and molten armor. if another one gives scorch, i can change it of course. But if i might be the only mage with scorch, which one should be overwritten for the benefit of ? I think i might switch molten armor for living bomb. What do you think?

Unless your scorch stack is dropping repeatedly, the LB glyph is a long-term damage boost, while the Scorch glyph just increases your first few seconds of damage. Even as the scorch bitch for the raid, I'd rather have LB glyphed.

valeea · 03/31/09, 7:52 AM

Sorry because of this question being a bit distractive from the threads initial topic, but could you please tell me in which way you specc other than the common 20/51/0 when you say 18/53/0 ? I assume you do not take arcane meditation, but both master of the elements and flame throwing, is that correct?

♦ Seonid · 03/31/09, 8:09 AM

The 18/53/0 build is the common of the two, since the 18 in Arcane are purely to reach TtW.

Lonerin · 03/31/09, 8:37 AM

Hi folks , Im usual to just read topics n dont post any reply but i would like to ask an easy question.
From what i read seem the most usefull specs once 3.1 comes live should be 20/51/0 and 57/3/11 , correct me if im wrong ofc.
About the 57/3/11 is now better to put 3 talent points on SoM? If so i was wondering where to take these points.