Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09/25/10, 2:10 PM   #166
Nnr
Glass Joe
 
Nnr's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Halls (EU)
So the new build is up, one major change

Spiritual Focus no longer gives you hit based on your Spirit. Renamed to Paragon of Virtue - Reduces the cooldown of your Divine Protection by 10/20 sec and the cooldown of your Avenging Wrath by 30/60 sec.
While I'm not so sure about reducing the cooldown of Divine Protection (would love to have the same effect on Hand of Protection, though), reducing cooldown on Wrath looks pretty nice for burst healing situations. Enlightement Judgements now increase hit aswell, just like they should from the beginning.

Offline
Old 09/25/10, 7:20 PM   #167
Blutelf
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Azshara (EU)
The reduced CD on Avenging Wrath makes me suspect that the healing penalty for DP is going to stay in some form since with 2/2 in the new Paragon of Virtue the two cooldowns for AW and DP would seem to line up perfectly at two minutes.

Offline
Old 09/27/10, 5:38 PM   #168
mofidik
Piston Honda
 
mofidik's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Doomhammer (EU)
So, with the new patch today things have gotten slightly interesting. I'm not sure how new this is, but the Protector of the Innocent talent appears to be bugged or the tooltip is wrong. Instead of healing "you" (the caster), it instead adds the stated healing amount as a bonus to whatever heal you cast. While it was very welcome for my heroic healing experience (we used a paladin tank, for reference), the results are undoubtedly too strong for 3 talent points:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The heal is triggered by most "common sense" as one would expect from the wording (does not proc from ToR nor LoD), but I did find a rather interesting mechanic. Meleeing to cause Seal of Insight procs (judging no longer procs seals to regen mana, as an aside) will transfer a very small heal to your beacon target (~500 area), it triggers a full Protector of the Innocent heal.

On a more general note for the ones who do not have beta, the healing right now is quite rough. I'm currently average ilvl 330 (my SP stacking trinket doesn't work, though) and the paladin tank I run with is slightly higher. Tank deaths even when I was entirely "on the ball" using the best heal available* occurred frequently or I was working entirely on fumes by the end of a fight, even with roughly 5% overhealing and trying to squeeze in melee swings. The free extra 20% healing felt more like a necessity than an overpowered bug.

*: On the note of "the best heal", I ran some dry numbers and came to the conclusion that while FoL is the highest HPS by a decent margin, it was the highest mana/s by a huge margin. I'm more than willing to learn from the more seasoned holy paladins (I have actually not healed a thing since roughly half a year ago prior to cata beta), it just seems like there is no place entirely for FoL. I personally feel the change to FoL left a huge void with no proper way to respond to light group damage without spending a high amount of mana on ToR, meaning we're stuck spending 10+ seconds of HL bombing the group to get them back up.

Offline
Old 09/28/10, 1:11 AM   #169
Zaroua
Don Flamenco
 
Zaroua's Avatar
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by mofidik View Post
On the note of "the best heal", I ran some dry numbers and came to the conclusion that while FoL is the highest HPS by a decent margin, it was the highest mana/s by a huge margin. I'm more than willing to learn from the more seasoned holy paladins (I have actually not healed a thing since roughly half a year ago prior to cata beta), it just seems like there is no place entirely for FoL. I personally feel the change to FoL left a huge void with no proper way to respond to light group damage without spending a high amount of mana on ToR, meaning we're stuck spending 10+ seconds of HL bombing the group to get them back up.
Flash of Light downright sucks on beta; I've casted less than 10 of them as Holy in the past 4 months playing Cata. For it to serve its purpose of being an emergency life saver, both the healing done and mana cost would have to be increased tremendously through talents so that casting the fast heal actually will save a life but cripple your mana. I'd personally triple the healing done and mana cost to make the spell worth casting in emergency situations.

Theorycrafting procedures per role:
DPS = Theory -> Spreadsheet -> Practice
Healing = Theory -> Practice -> Logs
Tanking = Theory -> Theory -> Theory

Offline
Old 09/28/10, 6:21 AM   #170
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
We were able to greatly improve the delay on receiving Holy Power from Divine Purpose. It still may not appear faster than you can hit your next button. To address that, we are going to try a model where if you have 3 Holy Power and get a fourth, you'll still receive that fourth Holy Power if you spend the first 3 within a couple of seconds. In essence, if the Holy Power is already "in the mail" you'll still get it. You can't hold it indefinitely, so you shouldn't treat the system as if you now have 4 Holy Power to play with. It just makes you less likely to waste a charge.
I'm hoping this will partially solve holy troubles as well. With Eternal Glory we're always going to be wasting some holy power, but it would be great if we could go from 3rd HL to WoG without hurting.

Edit: this is a brain fart. The only situation where banking holy power would affect holy would be if you wanted to cast HS as the 4th spell instead of HL (and WoG3 right after).

Last edited by DiamondTear : 09/28/10 at 1:35 PM.

Finland Offline
Old 09/28/10, 9:19 AM   #171
burghy
Don Flamenco
 
Human Paladin
 
Ravencrest (EU)
The way I read it won't change anything for holy, more like they try to replicate the effect for ret. Atm if you have 2 HP and cast 2HL + WoG, you do a 3HP WoG and are left with 1HP, not wasting any HP (if EG doesn't proc ofc).

Offline
Old 09/28/10, 11:54 AM   #172
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
I'm hoping this will partially solve holy troubles as well. With Eternal Glory we're always going to be wasting some holy power, but it would be great if we could go from 3rd HL to WoG without hurting.
I'm able to follow up a HL with a 3pt wog now easily - my only complaint now is that if eternal glory procs, it delays and we're mid cast until we see that we can cast yet another 3pt wog.

Originally Posted by Zaroua View Post
Flash of Light downright sucks on beta; I've casted less than 10 of them as Holy in the past 4 months playing Cata. For it to serve its purpose of being an emergency life saver, both the healing done and mana cost would have to be increased tremendously through talents so that casting the fast heal actually will save a life but cripple your mana. I'd personally triple the healing done and mana cost to make the spell worth casting in emergency situations.
I've found that in nearly any situation where a FoL would save someone (mostly aoe dmg or a dps being dumb, etc, since tank healing has been pretty easy) holy radiance is a better option both mana wise and healing output wise. Holy Radiance into either WoG or HSon the really low non tank target works really well. I've probably cast FoL 5-6 times total. Definitely have been using LoH as the emergency heal since emergencies don't seem to arise that much - at least, inevitable death emergencies. So yeah, FoL is fairly useless atm.

Offline
Old 09/28/10, 4:45 PM   #173
Bovii
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Maelstrom
Having never played a Paladin before (planning on checking out a Tauradin in the expansion), I have a question about Beacon. And, just as a forward, this question is PvP related and how Beacon interacts wtih Tower of Radiance.

Let's assume that you're being attacked and you place Beacon on yourself AND you have both Tower of Radiance and Blessed Life. I would assume that every direct heal (excluding the impact of melee heals through Seal of Insight and the indirect heals through Enlightened Judgements and Protect of the Innocent) would provide a point of Holy Power through ToR as well as every direct source of damage from BL providing a point of Holy Power. But the indirect healing would not offer any benefit for ToR. Is that right?

I feel like that is a really n00b question but I feel compelled to ask just to satisfy my curiosity.

Offline
Old 09/29/10, 4:16 AM   #174
Nnr
Glass Joe
 
Nnr's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shattered Halls (EU)
Rule of Law no longer increases the critical effect chance of Holy Shock
(Source). Looks like they want to make Rule of Law less interesting for Holy Paladins, making Divinity a more natural choice. Don't really have access to the beta now to test it, but would be awesome if someone could check it out.

Offline
Old 09/29/10, 12:52 PM   #175
quietstrm07
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Echo Isles
I hafta find that latest change a bit counterintuitive when they had stated that they made certain changes with divinity and its location in the tree to ask us to choose between certain subspec talents. They seem to change things to reduce the cookiecutter builds, but then make others which are going back to having a singluar build. Just means I'll be going with the divinity choice over the additional crit for sure now

Offline
Old 09/29/10, 1:40 PM   #176
nikitabanana
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Ysondre
Originally Posted by quietstrm07 View Post
I hafta find that latest change a bit counterintuitive when they had stated that they made certain changes with divinity and its location in the tree to ask us to choose between certain subspec talents. They seem to change things to reduce the cookiecutter builds, but then make others which are going back to having a singluar build. Just means I'll be going with the divinity choice over the additional crit for sure now
It gives us two at large points to allocate anywhere (generally judgement talents, although this isn't remotely required), and 1 extra point if you don't want 3/3 PoTI for allocation in holy.

Offline
Old 10/01/10, 1:36 AM   #177
Fivedkpminus
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by DiamondTear View Post
I'm curious about that hit. Does it affect judgments? I would assume it does but at some point I had the talent but still missed judgments, so I'm wondering if it's broken or not supposed to work at all. I could also be simply wrong and I haven't missed a judgment.
Judgment is considered a melee ability.
A bit odd how they made it spell hit and not hit all around. Maybe it is a bug.

Offline
Old 10/01/10, 1:36 PM   #178
DiamondTear
Don Flamenco
 
DiamondTear's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Originally Posted by Fivedkpminus View Post
Judgment is considered a melee ability.
A bit odd how they made it spell hit and not hit all around. Maybe it is a bug.
The new +hit talent we got affects both melee and spell hit, so it's all good.

Finland Offline
Old 10/01/10, 6:39 PM   #179
LPrime
Glass Joe
 
LPrime's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by nikitabanana View Post
It gives us two at large points to allocate anywhere (generally judgement talents, although this isn't remotely required), and 1 extra point if you don't want 3/3 PoTI for allocation in holy.
Currently I am putting those 2 points into Imp HoJ. I know this will only last until raids open up, but I am using HoJ as a damage reduction tool quite often right now. Its amazing how much stunning 1 target for 6 seconds helps right now.

Also, it looks like Protector of the Innocent is working properly since the last patch. I was hoping they would overlook that bug...

Offline
Old 10/02/10, 1:40 PM   #180
Larenitis
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
<TG>
Arthas
Rule of Law gives us 15% critical chance to our Word of Glory; using all 3 points. It may seem less attractive than what was Holy Shock, since HS crits give Infusion of Light procs. I've been using my remainder 2 points into Improved Judgments in the Retribution tree. Gives you a bit more freedom in placement from a boss and still being able to judge without hugging the boss. Although I do see that if you don't take the aforementioned talent, that when you do need to refresh JoTP, you could get some quick melee swings off for some mana return (default range on judgment is 10yds).

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Paladin] Raiding and Holy Light Stefan Class Mechanics 18 05/10/07 10:16 AM
Unusually powerful Judgement of Light? Fjord Class Mechanics 62 05/06/07 3:04 PM