I am pondering whether or not that your difficulty with healing people is based solely on your itemization choices that look to still be firmly planted in WotLK theory-crafting. Specifically, your gemming for int. Wouldn't, due to the changes in gearing, talent trees, and specializations, spell power be a better choice? Does Intellect still hold the best choice for us in a sense that we should still be sacrificing everything for it? I see no theorycrafting logic to support such a claim at this point for Paladins.

It would seem, logically, that you would first analyze the root problem; your heals aren't landing for enough. A solution exists, luckily, in that you could gem/gear for spell power till they are. What good is gemming for WolTK raids (read: long period of mass spamming i.e: intellect) when clearly your not meant to raid heal like that anymore (who raid heals leveling 80-85 anyways?).

I am more in doubt of your early feedback, based on the other users reports of your tanks ability or your own skill, then I am that Blizzard would give us such an obviously useless ability (5k/9k crits in a period of double stam/health pools). I would also caution that Blizzard has repeatedly stated they are continually tweaking/modifying numbers throughout the tree-design process. It seems unlikely these low numbers will make it to live.

Can you, due to me not having access to the beta personally, try tweaking your gemming and itemization to favor more spellpower and raw throughput and reporting back how that feels?

Can you actually still gem for SP in Cata? They remove SP from most of the gear and I thought they will remove enchants/gems as well

I tried what you suggested. Here are my unbuffed stats, in beta, most of my gear is unchanged from my armory, gemming mostly Int with a couple Int/Sp gems I had 3519 spell power and 45568 mana. My HL went ~6.5k regular to ~10k Crit. I switched out 12 20 Int gems for 23 SP gems and it raised my sp to 3560, and lowered my mana to 41968. My HL hit for roughly the same. 41 sp is not worth loosing 3600 mana. Even putting either mp5/spirit/haste gems would not be worth the switch. The stat differences would not make up what you gain by gemming int. While our healing “style” has changed dramatically, we, in my opinion, should be gemming the same as Int now equals spell power, mana, crit. I have found myself healing with Holy Light, Holy Shock and Word of Glory. WoG is free and with a 3 stack of holy power it hits for ~8k. A key part to our healing is going to be using that in conjunction with our other healing spells. In some cases I do use Divine Light, Healing Hands and Light of Dawn, but due to their high cost they are situational spells. I think a lot of holy paladins are used to the lazy healing style of spam HL and it will be all fine. This will not work anymore. You have to use the tools that are now presented or people can and will die.

Divine Protection is also something I think we will be using more as it now has a 1 min cd and reduces all damage by 20% on the person it is cast on.

A vast majority of the tanks I have gotten, outside of the guild ones, barely have more HP than I do. Their gear is very low par and part of the reason people are reporting high tank deaths is due to this and what seems like low dps. The only real reference I have, for low dps, is how quickly a boss dies in relation to pug dps vs guild dps. In the runs where I have had a guild tank and dps I have not had nearly the difficulty keeping them alive before mobs die, whereas when you have 1-2 pug dps and 1 pug tank you do.

I don't really see the point of judging a healing experience that's missing 30% haste for at least half your HLs, and -1.5 additional reduction for quite a few of them.
The base duration of a HL after HS should be (3-0.3)/1.09/1.3 = 1.905, compared to live of (2.5-0.5)/1.15=1.739.
Looking at mana costs and healing numbers, it's pretty clear HS must be used whenever it's off-cd as the goto heal. In addition, Tower of Radiance should really help build up HP stacks for 5-mans (I think it's a raid viable talent as well), which will allow for more WoG usage.
As for gemming, haste seems like the natural fit for leveling, seeing as running out of mana is not a risk in 5-mans.

There is still a level cap of 83, so nobody can accurately say how all the ratings scale at 85.
There is no more straight up SP, intel is now your source of SP.
It's also a major contributor to mana generation.

As a healer, you will likely still continue to want lots of intel for regen as well as SP and a bit of crit. You'll also want to get haste to get the cast time of HL down as much as possible (3sec base).


You can dump the libram of renewal, mana on HL is pretty much a non issue. There's a couple alternatives you can pick instead depending on expected playstyle. You will probaby want to use the Libram of the Resolute (more SP on HL) or the furious gladiator's libram of justice (more SP on FOL).

Glyphs haven't been redone yet, the old ones are still there.

I was specifically asking how much extra something like Holy Light heals for per spellpower, and of course spellpower is gained from int so there's that connection. Even if we can't get to 85 yet we can still do some reasonable modeling to see where we'll likely end up as far as spellpower and crit scaling. For future reference we have to look at spellpower and not intellect because not all of our spellpower comes from int. Another note is because int now grants spellpower, the crit gained from it is going to be cut quite a bit to balance things. Blizzard's goal is to make all of the stats roughly equivalent in terms of total benefits gained.

Holy Light will have a base of 2.7 with talents and if it's treated the same as our current Light's Grace then it's an effective 11% haste. Add in 9% from judging, then 5% from raid buffs and we're already at 25% haste for a 2.4 second cast. With Infusion of Light and Speed of light though there's another 30% haste bringing it down to 1.935, and if IoF procs it'll be dropped down to a .435 second cast.

Rating conversion for level 85 are not ready yet and I'm sure numbers on everything will be tweaked. So, premature is an understatement for gearing optimizations.
I wonder about Speed of Light, ranks 1/2 give 5% and 10% haste resp. Either the 3rd is supposed to be 15% or they'll be adjusted to 10/20 (or wowtal.com is just wrong). As for Infusion of Light it will very most likely work pre-haste, so cutting HL to 1.2s and only then you factor in haste. Not a big diff in any case since 5% haste from gear will push it to 1s cast.

A few screenshots of the mastery bubble from the beta. Right now, they do NOT roll, but let's hope that's changed in a later build. Also, absorbs now show up in the combat log, which is handy.

Hey in regards to this, can you try to partner up with a Disc priest and find out if the combat log reports shield absorbs from all candidates who casted shields on a target? I'd be interested to see if we will finally be able to get accurate stats from absorbs (especially now with it going to be a significant portion of our healing). Its a shame this wasn't implemented in the days of Sacred Shield-Ulduar, but it'd be a big win for tracking our new mastery in logs.

(First off, source on that?) Does this really matter though? In the Cataclysm style healing landscape are we really going to build up big shields on anyone? I highly doubt from my reading they intend us to waste heals on anyone (which would be exactly how you'd go about building up a big shield from rolling). Its a nice feature for sure, but I don't see it contributing anything significant due to the environmental changes of heals versus incoming damage model they are incorporating.

New retribution talent seems very interesting, a free heal made free again? Sign me up.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Holy Paladin Build 12759 Discussion

Im not arguing as to the efficacy of our shields, i'm arguing as to the rolling effect being important.

The need to heal a target is based on incoming damage. Therefore isn't it far more likely that since your last heal (6 seconds ago) the target has taken and used up any shield thats present on it? The only situation where we are more likely to heal a target repeatedly in 6 seconds is the tank... and thats precisely what you'd expect to occur.

I just don't see a scenario where we'd be spending mana on healing targets with a shield up already (since that would preclude that they've taken zero damage since the last shield was placed on them). Nor would we be likely to attempt to maintain a 6 second shield on anyone other then the main tank.

I'm failing to see a situation where a rolling shield really helps us in the new landscape. Maybe i'm just being argumentative at this point or dumb, or both.