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Old 07/22/10, 10:35 PM   #166
smashbro
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Joelly View Post
I read that as it will only increase holy damage of holy shield by 30%.

Also Eye for an Eye seems very situational. With the nerf to aoe trash pulls in the expansion, maybe repentance would be a better choice. Eye for an Eye still obviously is more dps.
I was thinking of aoe damage bosses do

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Old 07/22/10, 10:39 PM   #167
Joelly
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by smashbro View Post
I was thinking of aoe damage bosses do
So was I.

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Old 07/22/10, 10:49 PM   #168
Babathong
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Alterac Mountains
Is the new interrupt off the gcd?

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Old 07/22/10, 10:52 PM   #169
kharen
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by GeuGeu View Post
Also, is anyone else not sure what they mean by Exclusive to Holy Shield?
I'd assume they mean that you can only have one of the two buffs up at once. Presumably to stop Prot trying to weave them both together, so they have to make a choice between mitigation from Holy Shield, or increased threat from Inquisition (although given the changes to Holy Shield, and Prot's apparent lack of any other finisher, using Inquisition at all it looking very unattractive).

As far as Inquisition goes, it's clear they want to work it into the Ret rotation (our SnD equivalent, basically), so regardless of it's current mechanics, we can be fairly sure that the current plan is for Ret to have a ~30s buff finisher that does something to increase our damage to maintain between mashing TV, and they'll tweak the mechanics as necessary to make us use it.

One thing that I noticed looking at the full list of changes on mmo-champ is that all the Judgement/Exo/CS cooldown reductions are gone. That leaves you relying on procs to maintain a 3Inq/3TV/3TV rotation without dropping Inq, and makes weaving CS and fillers slightly more awkward as it no longer lines up neatly with the GCD.

The talent tree in general is improved over the last build, with a little more flexibility (5/3/32 gives you all the dps increases, 2/2 PoJ, Repentance, and one floater point to spend wherever you like), but still feels a little heavy on mandatory talents.

The Exo talents in particular (still) seem awkward - not only the relatively heavy 4pt investment, but the rather illogical arrangement. First you have to sink points into increasing the damage (of a spell which, if you're levelling, you can't even use in combat due to the cast time), and only then do you spend the points to make it usable. If they're going to stick with 4 points for it, Art of War should come first to make it usable, then Sanctity of Battle to make it better (combining them and replacing one with an optional utility talent would be preferable, though).

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Old 07/22/10, 11:07 PM   #170
Heilige
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Crushridge
Exclusive means they can't be up at the same time. They're making prot choose between extra threat or extra survivability with their Holy Power.

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Old 07/23/10, 12:02 AM   #171
Niunka
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Silvermoon (EU)
Im not blessed with beta key therefore would like to ask anyone who could tell me does SoV works exactly the same as we have it on 3.3.5 ?
I've had a huge hope we will be lucky enough and be given a change that will help us get that SoV stacks applied anyhow faster on a target or the mechanic removed completely.
I have never had anything against "rump up" mechanic but babysitting stacks and not letting them drop during 15sec (which is dependant on melee swing) isnt really that fun.
While im not quite sure but atm that would made us the only class with some sort of combo points on ourself and on a target that we attack?
I might also missed a huge point when actually we are (as ret paladins) no longer intended to use SoV/SoCorr on a single target.
Any clarification would be highly appreciated.

Edit: As far as im concerned atm in a heavy weap dmg environment our talents (abbilities) are,
SoV seems to be outdated from that modeling.
Im curious what future brings.

Last edited by Niunka : 07/23/10 at 12:11 AM.

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Old 07/23/10, 12:21 AM   #172
smashbro
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Silvermoon
Originally Posted by Niunka View Post
Im not blessed with beta key therefore would like to ask anyone who could tell me does SoV works exactly the same as we have it on 3.3.5 ?
I've had a huge hope we will be lucky enough and be given a change that will help us get that SoV stacks applied anyhow faster on a target or the mechanic removed completely.
I have never had anything against "rump up" mechanic but babysitting stacks and not letting them drop during 15sec (which is dependant on melee swing) isnt really that fun.
While im not quite sure but atm that would made us the only class with some sort of combo points on ourself and on a target that we attack?
I might also missed a huge point when actually we are (as ret paladins) no longer intended to use SoV/SoCorr on a single target.
Any clarification would be highly appreciated.

Edit: As far as im concerned atm in a heavy weap dmg environment our talents (abbilities) are,
SoV seems to be outdated from that modeling.
Im curious what future brings.
I saw in a post somewhere on these forums that SoV, er... SoT as it now is called... stacks on any melee attack not just white swings.

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Old 07/23/10, 12:40 AM   #173
Glutton
King Hippo
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Kalecgos
As for Inquisition and the subject of our Holy damage post Templar's...

Example log, without using Inquisition.

Physical damage:

Melee 14.5%
Crusader Strike 13.6%
Templar's Verdict 10.3%
Manifest Anger: 1.8%

Total Physical 40.2%

Holy damage:

Seal of Truth 21.4%
Censure 11.0% (new Holy Vengeance/Blood Corruption)
Seals of Retribution 10.8% (Highly bugged. It's double proccing constantly, likely due to refreshing the Censure stack and/or Seal of Truth. I expect it to be half this strong when 4.0 hits)
Judgement 8.1%
Exorcism 3.9%
Holy Wrath 2.3%
Consecration 1.7%
Hammer of Wrath 0.7%

Total Holy 59.8%

No one knows how frequently you would have to reapply Inquisition for it to be a DPS increase, but Holy damage is going to remain a significant component of our damage. We're no Fury... yet! The removal of Divine Storm in our single target rotation means we're not going to be doing a significantly higher amount of physical damage in the current beta relative to live despite the addition of Templar's Verdict.

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Old 07/23/10, 12:45 AM   #174
 frmorrison
Protector
 
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Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
The specalization is out:
Increases your Strength by 5% while wearing only Plate armor.

I am glad there is a decent bonus for only wearing Plate. When you are getting ready for Cata, I think you would want to get rid of your leather armor. Note this doesn't seem to include rings/back/neck/weapon.

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Old 07/23/10, 2:28 AM   #175
Meebo
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Blackrock
Is "Judgements of the Pure" going to stack with "Swift Retribution"?

"Only the ignorant laugh when Paladin DPS is mentioned." - Eyonix

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Old 07/23/10, 2:53 AM   #176
Dram
Searching for the skyward sword
 
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Linkmonk
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
It should, "Swift Retribution" is the "Windfury" group buff, Judgements of the Pure is a self buff.

Originally Posted by Vectivus View Post
Not all squirters leave a nice little bit of sogginess on the sheets. Maybe Fric doesn't want to be fast asleep in bed and having hour-old ladyspooge dripping on to him from the ceiling. Just sayin'.

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Old 07/23/10, 3:11 AM   #177
Charmin
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Glutton View Post
Consecrate's damage formula was nerfed by half when it was granted the ability to crit. Holy Wrath would be the best filler when Crusader Strike and Judgement are on cooldown and Art of War is not procced.

HoW's damage formula hasn't changed yet, although it's certainly a possibility.
Even though Cons was nerfed I was still getting more damage out of it than HW per use. Obviously keeping this in mind with a static mob and my drastically reduced crit chance at 83 (I went from 26% last build to 10.67% this build; with ironically a 12% spell crit chance). If you are right you are right, but HW was doing sub 2k damage with Inquisition up and Cons was doing around 4k+ with Inq up. Maybe there is a coefficient I don't understand that would let HW scale better, but I just don't see HW being a better spent GCD than Cons on a static target.

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Old 07/23/10, 3:42 AM   #178
chippydip
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Zuluhed
Originally Posted by Charmin View Post
Even though Cons was nerfed I was still getting more damage out of it than HW per use. Obviously keeping this in mind with a static mob and my drastically reduced crit chance at 83 (I went from 26% last build to 10.67% this build; with ironically a 12% spell crit chance). If you are right you are right, but HW was doing sub 2k damage with Inquisition up and Cons was doing around 4k+ with Inq up. Maybe there is a coefficient I don't understand that would let HW scale better, but I just don't see HW being a better spent GCD than Cons on a static target.
I went back and looked at the spell description again on wowhead and realized that the 32% damage formula from mmo-champion is probably right afterall. In fact, according to wowhead, the damage formula is exactly the same in both live and beta: (8 * (0 + 0.04 * holy power + 0.04 * AP)). 8 * 0.04 gives the 32% of spell power and ap.

After scratching my head for a minute, I realized that they must, in fact, be doing the same overall damage since the duration has been increased from 8 seconds in live to 15 seconds in the beta. Thus, while the DPS of consecrate has been roughly halved (resulting in ticks that are also half the size), the damage per cast time is exactly the same as it is now.

Exo and HoW are both currently listed as 15% (AP + SP) + some constant and HW is 30% SP + constant with no AP contribution anymore. Even with the 20% boost to Exo from talents, Cons should still be our best DPCT filler by a comfortable margin, followed by Exo and HoW in a relative tie for second and HW a distant third. If this remains the same then the only difference between our single target and AoE rotations would be the use of DS instead of TV as a finisher, though, so I would imagine that more changes will come at some point to shake this priority up.

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Old 07/23/10, 3:50 AM   #179
Inverse
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Frostmane
Quick question for those in the beta (or just keeping a sharper eye on things than I am):

What happened with our pet (Guardian of the Ancient Kings)? Has it been implemented (or has it ever, as far as the beta has been going on). If so, how is it? If not, anybody know if it's been scrapped with all of our other revisions or still something we're likely to see?

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Old 07/23/10, 3:58 AM   #180
chippydip
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Zuluhed
Originally Posted by Inverse View Post
What happened with our pet (Guardian of the Ancient Kings)? Has it been implemented (or has it ever, as far as the beta has been going on). If so, how is it? If not, anybody know if it's been scrapped with all of our other revisions or still something we're likely to see?
I'm pretty sure its still planned. GC was talking about it as a prot tanking cooldown in one of the feedback threads I believe. However, its a lvl 85 skill and the level cap is current 83 so nobody has had a chance to train it yet (if it has even been implemented at this point).

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