The Retribution Concordance - 4.0.1 - Page 17

eduh · 10/19/10, 5:35 PM

Originally Posted by lagavulin

Is there any way to trigger the blizzard power auras when you have 3 stacks of holy power?

It took me forever to even figure out what they were. The swords on the sides of your character are AoW procs and the symbol above your character is the mastery proc, correct?

I'd like to trigger the mastery one somehow when I get 3 stacks of holy power as I want to do the same thing then: hit TV.

CLCRet just shows the default blizzard holy power thing which is hard for me to tell when you have 3 stacks.

Im using Power Auras.

You can do almost anything with it.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3081/powa.png

Inu · 10/19/10, 5:44 PM

Originally Posted by eduh

Im using Power Auras.

You can do almost anything with it.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3081/powa.png

Mine is similar. I use the the red "X" as the first two stacks, and then the "Green Checkmark" for the third. I also have custom sounds associated with the two different symbols.

EDIT: I would post a picture if i wasn't at work.

cannadrys · 10/19/10, 8:31 PM

The Ret paladin "rotation" shares something with Wrath - it is priority based. The priority for single-target is as follows:
Inq > TV > CS > HoW > Exo > J > HW > Cons

One rotational thing to consider: If HoL is up at the same time as CS and we have <2 Holy power, it might it be worth hitting CS, as long as HoL won't expire?

According to our priority, CS > the other attacks. By using CS if HoL is up and has say 2 or more seconds left and you are under 2 holy power, you could potentially push other lesser attacks out of the overall rotation and push more CS's in. I'm guessing it might be worth breaking out of our rotation under this one condition.

An example:

CS (to 2HP) > TV (using HoL) > CS (to 3HP)

Instead of:

TV (using HoL) > CS (to 2 HP) > Filler X

Oicx · 10/19/10, 9:22 PM

disregard, misread the post above

Ocin · 10/20/10, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by Kinmaul

I was wondering where people place their Holy Power bar at. Given the massive damage difference between a 2pt finisher compared to a 3pt finisher (or the Holy Power loss of using CS at 3 hp instead of TV/DS) this is going to one of the critical differences between an average ret paladin and a great one. We need to be able to capitalize on DP procs that push us from 2 to 3hp to maximize our dps. Obviously the stock location of the upper left is absolutely horrid; to the point where I'd say that using stock UI while playing ret is going to be unviable from a min/max standpoint.

I played around with mutiple locations, but found I was still missing out on DP procs and would essential waste holy power due to using CS at 3hp after getting a random DP proc. I finally broke down and just stuck the bar right in the middle of my screen. It's not "pretty" from a UI standpoint, but the location does have some synergy with the new Blizzard power auras since your AoE and HoL procs show up in the same location.

I'd love a larger, moveable version of the Blizzard default HoPo indicator. Right now I'm using HolyTrinity which is a little too bare bones for me since even at large sizes, it doesn't stand out enough unless it's very big, and that creates new problems. I keep it underneath my toon and lined up with my unit frame on the left of it and my target's unit frame on the right of it.

Ocin · 10/20/10, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by reddrumjay

Has anyone else confirmed this? I couldn't use them at all with MotW.

It's been fixed. Tried it tonight in ICC.

Cidis · 10/20/10, 1:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ocin

I'd love a larger, moveable version of the Blizzard default HoPo indicator. Right now I'm using HolyTrinity which is a little too bare bones for me since even at large sizes, it doesn't stand out enough unless it's very big, and that creates new problems. I keep it underneath my toon and lined up with my unit frame on the left of it and my target's unit frame on the right of it.

CLCinfo allows you to drag the default Blizzard Holy Power frame about. And is has the exact same functionality as CLCret, a bit more complicated to set up atm though.

Ret FCFS Rotation Helper

Props to Teleros for his awesome guide.

Here is my bad UI but you can see CLCinfo.

Originally Posted by cannadrys

One rotational thing to consider: If HoL is up at the same time as CS and we have <2 Holy power, it might it be worth hitting CS, as long as HoL won't expire?

According to our priority, CS > the other attacks. By using CS if HoL is up and has say 2 or more seconds left and you are under 2 holy power, you could potentially push other lesser attacks out of the overall rotation and push more CS's in. I'm guessing it might be worth breaking out of our rotation under this one condition.

An example:

CS (to 2HP) > TV (using HoL) > CS (to 3HP)

Instead of:

TV (using HoL) > CS (to 2 HP) > Filler X

Can anyone confirm if we do have the 4th HoPo rollover? Because if we don't then you could be potentially wasting a HoPo from getting to 3 then using the HoL proc. I can't say that I have been able to see any HoPo rolling over.

Kinmaul · 10/20/10, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by Cidis

Can anyone confirm if we do have the 4th HoPo rollover? Because if we don't then you could be potentially wasting a HoPo from getting to 3 then using the HoL proc. I can't say that I have been able to see any HoPo rolling over.

Testing this is basically impossible from my understanding. We are only supposed to get the "roll-over" from DP procs, but TV/DS have a 40% chance to proc holy power as well. I can say for sure that I've used a 3pt TV and ended up with 1 holy power left over; however there's no way to say if that extra hp came from the DP proc on the TV or the roll-over based on the delayed DP proc from the filler. To be honest the DP procs seem fairly crisp for the most part compared to the reports from early in the beta so I'm not sure how big of an issue this is.

I suppose there could be a theortical scenario where HoL procs at 3hp, you generate a lag-delayed hp from the filler, and at the same time your TV (which consumes the HoL proc) generates a hp. You'd have two "floating" hp and if the max is 4 you'd lose one. However the probabilty of this scenario is highly unlikely. The chance for our special attacks to generate hp is 40% and since their is no mastery on gear and its not worth reforging our auto attacks have an 8% chance to proc HoL. Thus we would need the filler to proc DP, our auto attack to proc HoL, and then TV to proc DP. Napkin math puts that at: 0.40 x 0.08 x 0.40 = 0.0128 which is only a 1.28% chance. That number itself isn't even accurate because it does not take into account the fact that our auto attack would have to occur during this exact moment so the probability would be even lower.

Naimon · 10/20/10, 4:59 AM

Originally Posted by Ocin

I'd love a larger, moveable version of the Blizzard default HoPo indicator. Right now I'm using HolyTrinity which is a little too bare bones for me since even at large sizes, it doesn't stand out enough unless it's very big, and that creates new problems. I keep it underneath my toon and lined up with my unit frame on the left of it and my target's unit frame on the right of it.

I've been using Retribution Rotation Helper (RRH) and I think it'll be what you're looking for. Check it out here:
(RRH) [Cata+PTR] Retribution Rotation Helper w/Holy Pow Bar - Addons - Curse

chamberlas · 10/20/10, 5:48 AM

A few people have asked about mods that allow you to move your holy power bar around etc.

I found that no matter where I put it with whatever mod, it didnt really help.

I have ended up using power auras. Rather than displaying the holy power bar I have chosen to play a sound on 3 or more holy power. For me this is a huge advantage as I am finding even more now that staring at spell cooldowns, procs and holy power is making it extremly difficult for me to actually watch my screen and follow raid tactics while trying to keep the perfect rotation.

Tobrexa · 10/20/10, 7:36 AM

Concerning HoPo rollover:

I have no screenshots to back it up, but as I was testing for expertise and hitcap, I noticed that sometimes, when I had the chance to chaincast TV through HoLproc, immediately followed by a 3HoPo TV, my next cycle started with 2 HoPo.

As this was some days ago, I'm not sure anymore if that also happened with other abilites proccing a HoPo through DP.

Again, as I have no screenshot to prove it, all I can do is point out this notion I had.

Streetlightout · 10/20/10, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by Tobrexa

Concerning HoPo rollover:

I have no screenshots to back it up, but as I was testing for expertise and hitcap, I noticed that sometimes, when I had the chance to chaincast TV through HoLproc, immediately followed by a 3HoPo TV, my next cycle started with 2 HoPo.

As this was some days ago, I'm not sure anymore if that also happened with other abilites proccing a HoPo through DP.

Again, as I have no screenshot to prove it, all I can do is point out this notion I had.

I also can confirm this has happened for me (no screenshots unfortunately) - I have stacked to 3 holy power, got a HoL proc - used back to back TVs and ended up with two holy power afterwards.

Zalinda · 10/20/10, 8:46 AM

The above can indeed happen, it's part of the implemented 'overflow' system.

You have 3HoPo and are about to hit TV, the GCD is still running on your previous ability.
You weapon swing and get a HoL proc
You TV and consume HoL, you get a DP proc and an additional HoPo. You're now at 3 HoPo +1 overflow as a hidden buff, it'll get removed if you don't use the HoPo fast enough.
You TV again consuming 3 HoPo, you are given the 1 HoPo overflow. TV procs another DP and you're at 2 HoPo.

Jafbe · 10/20/10, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tobrexa

Concerning HoPo rollover:

I have no screenshots to back it up, but as I was testing for expertise and hitcap, I noticed that sometimes, when I had the chance to chaincast TV through HoLproc, immediately followed by a 3HoPo TV, my next cycle started with 2 HoPo.

As this was some days ago, I'm not sure anymore if that also happened with other abilites proccing a HoPo through DP.

Again, as I have no screenshot to prove it, all I can do is point out this notion I had.

I have had this happen countless times since the patch, hard to say where it comes from tho.

Exemplar · 10/20/10, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by cannadrys

One rotational thing to consider: If HoL is up at the same time as CS and we have <2 Holy power, it might it be worth hitting CS, as long as HoL won't expire?

This is a very good point and a chance to display excellent play versus merely good play (or an add for Burghy to insert into clcRet/Info code).

If you are at 1 or 2 HP and have a HoL proc, using the CS first is superior. At 3 HP it is inferior, since CS cannot push you to 4 HP (only DivPurp procs can do so). CS, HoL TV puts you 2 GCD into the CS CD, while HoL TV, CS puts you waiting the full CS CD.