4.0.3a Tanking/Protection Field Manual :: Fordring's Groupies (Updated: Dec 2, 2010) - Page 3

paladinus · 10/15/10, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Palisade

What real benefit, if any, would the dazing shield glyph add to our arsenal? It seems counter intuitive to me to use it. Vengeance procs off of getting our heads kicked in, so don't we want the mobs hitting us (as before?)

You don't have to use it, it is merely a suggestion. I use it because I believe that it helps with crowd control when I confront a group. Cast AS (daze the mobs), run in cast HW and drop Consecration to build initial AoE threat. It has worked pretty well for me and HW will also stun most mobs if the Glyph of Holy Wrath is chosen. Dazed then stunned can be a pretty good combo.

Vengeance kicks in after we take damage, and we will take damage during a fight. Why not get in as much damage as you can before they start getting some in on you?

Kasi · 10/15/10, 4:57 PM

The only problem I have with dazing on AS is that it at times conflicts with the previous main use of the ability. That being a way to get casters over to you. In somewhere like FoS or HoR it was invaluable to get ranged casters over to me in the big 5-6 pulls you get there. But with daze up it would slow their movement and make it harder to reach me. Which is why for right now I didn't take daze as one of my major glyphs.

However it is perhaps not as big an issue now since I tend to use AS more for maintaining agro on people in melee range, since our other aoe threat has been hurt. (although the hotfix to HotR should help) Once I get more comfortable with being more selective on AS I might reconsider on glyphing it.

• Snowy · 10/15/10, 5:02 PM

If I would have had a way to glyph AS to not apply the daze pre 4.0 I almost certainly would have used it. Perhaps it's just personal taste, but there's almost no benefit in dazing mobs as a tank unless you are specifically trying to kite them. Any other time I am either actively tanking those mobs, or want them to come to me -- in which case dazing them is counterproductive.

♦ emptyrepublic · 10/15/10, 5:19 PM

Alright, I've done about 20-25 small to moderate changes to the field manual. If you suggested something to me but I did not include your revisions it could be because it was too vague, similar to someone else's, too subjective, theory without justification, or I simply overlooked it (my scratch sheet got big quickly). If you feel strongly that something should be in the manual resend it to me; please be concise and clear on what you think should be corrected and what it should be corrected with and why. As usual, please be patient and give me some time to distill all the information that is out there and sent to me.

Also, kudos to Theck for letting me cheat off his test.

Follow the development of the manual and find additional instructions at the link below:

» Paladin Protection Field Manual 4.0 Version - To Do List

Dekkar · 10/15/10, 5:41 PM

One thing nobody seems to have noted yet:

The interrupt effect on Avenger's Shield is instantaneous, while the silence is applied only after the missile impacts the target(s). It's not easy to prove this to you without seeing it for yourselves, so you'll have to test it out. Below is my PTR testing threat on Avenger's Shield. Everything I've said in the thread is still true, except that the new tooltip for Avenger's Shield actually lists the interrupt now.

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Avenger's Shield Behaviour (@ Alandrek)

Sahas · 10/15/10, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Darthpred

Fully agreed with you here. So many glyphs I want to put in and so little place for them. This will end up in taking lots of erasing dust to raids and changing glyphs to the needs of the specific pull.

And I got some troubles with reforging. Mastery is great but when do I have to stop reforging other avoidance stats to it? Where is the reasonable limit for drop doge+parry down? It was asked before but still no answer to that.

The hard and fast answer for the next few months is to reforge your excessive dodge and parry to the point that your mastery is providing enough block to block 100% of incoming attacks that are not avoided (i.e. 102.4% combined avoidance and block).

So take whatever your dodge and parry values are on the character sheet, add block %, add 5% miss and then add another 15% for holy shield's contribution and if the sum of those %'s is less than 102.4%, then you'll probably be able to reforge some dodge or parry into mastery to reach the "block cap". Also consider that raid buffs such as kings/Horn of winter will up your avoidance by a few percent depending on your current stats.

At 277 gear levels, I have heard of people easily reaching the block cap, however my guy is in many off set 264's and I am not there yet even after reforging some of my avoidance.

From the maintankadin reforging thread:

Originally Posted by Sculder courtesy of Polonadis

When trying to reach the block cap, your general reforging strategy should be to keep your dodge just above 21.6% and parry just above 21.44%. This will ensure that all dodge/parry rating that is reforged to mastery will be converted at a rate that is favorable to your overall avoidance. In most cases you will be reforging a lot of dodge to mastery, while minimally changing parry on your gear. This will of course depend on your gear itemization.

Failing that, you should reforge your avoidance to block to tailor to your specific situation and healers' needs. The discussion currently is on whether or not just reducing dodge/parry equally together into a greater amount of block is worth it even if you're taking more damage in the long run, provided that damage is less spikey.

Much of that discussion will be moot anyway if/when the buff to mastery makes it to live, essentially making reaching the block cap even easier than it currently is in some gear sets.

(edit for content and clarity)

Streetlightout · 10/15/10, 7:40 PM

Has anybody been checking the healing of Ardent Defender? I have been pvping as prot (tons of fun) and been using Ardent Defender a few times, however I don't see the heal it's supposed to provide. I popped it once in low HP and then died, thinking "ok I must not have gotten it off in time" - but I went to check my logs and it said Ardent Defender healed me for 297 HP....huh?

My guess is that there is a bug (possibly?) that is making it heal for 15% of your current HP instead of 15% of your maximum HP. I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this issue since patch went live and will also be trying more tests on my own.

Edit:

Further tested shows that it is indeed working, which raises a few questions now -

#1 - one of the heals I got from Ardent Defender was a critical heal, I never looked at the numbers from it pre-patch but was it always capable of a critical heal? If not this is a nice addition
#2 - Since it seems like it is indeed working - what could explain me only getting a 297 heal from it? Do healing reduction abilities effect the heal? I just did a test with a hunter applying a healing debuff to me and it only healed for 4533 when it should be healing me for 5631

• frmorrison · 10/15/10, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by tkoreaper

I am able to stack on my belt, cloak, and helm. Glove enchant is not stackable if you're using the web armor. I'm guessing that is because web armor doesn't add a "use" to the item like all the other chants do.

Note the level 85 version of the glove enchant is a /use effect, which is the focus of this guide.
At level 80 you have to decide between the permanent armor or 18 stamina/rocket attack.
It is nice to know the helm enchant stacks as well, more stamina!

Velk · 10/15/10, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

At level 80 you have to decide between the permanent armor or 18 stamina/rocket attack.
It is nice to know the helm enchant stacks as well, more stamina!

No you don't. The armor webbing takes the enchant slot, and the rocket/hyperspeed accelerators use the tinker slot, so you can have both armor and rocket on gloves.

Tor1958 · 10/16/10, 3:08 AM

Nitro boost stacks with Tuskarr's

Proudmoore · 10/16/10, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by Streetlightout

#1 - one of the heals I got from Ardent Defender was a critical heal, I never looked at the numbers from it pre-patch but was it always capable of a critical heal? If not this is a nice addition

Yes, it's always been capable of a critical heal - although it wasn't a common event even before the patch.

Kobor · 10/16/10, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by _sl0t_

The Glyph of SoR is also amazing for threat generation. With full Vengeance, 3 charges of HoPo and the glyph my SoR was criting for 47k.

How will it go up for over 40K, raid buff is increasing it that much?
Was just trying on quest mobs in icc and without glyph ShoR hit 5K or 10K depend on Sacred Duty (I think) with 3 HoPo.
I don't have Crusade for first try, trying more survive talent yet.
The Rule of Law increase its crit even more, or if have Sacred Duty buff then RoL is not helping in its crit?
Did I miss something that increase its damage to that high?

PKainus · 10/16/10, 5:16 PM

Which talent is better for threat between Grand Crusader and Reckoning? In the "Guardian" spec listed, you took 1/2 Reckoning and 2/2 Grand Crusader, whereas in the "Wogger" spec, you took 2/2 Reckoning and 1/2 Grand Crusader.

willturnbad · 10/16/10, 5:40 PM

Parry Rating
As mentioned above Parry Rating will be gained from STR as well as items. According to Blizzard parry will "provide the same avoidance as Dodge" indicating for the purposes of avoidance parry and dodge are equivalent in terms of stat values.

I read the above blue post and wondered if is was true.

With 1400 dodge rating and 850 parry rating, I did this simple exercise.
I removed my item level 264 relic, which has equal amount of dodge and parry(34 of each)
The World of Warcraft Armory

My dodge fell from 27.56% to 27.21% a .35% loss in mitigation.
My parry fell from 19.72% to 19.06% a .66% loss in mitigation, even though my dodge should be deeper into diminishing returns if the above post was correct.

There is chance, I suppose that they will change this later. But for now it doesn't appear to be true.

For now gemming for parry to fill socket bonuses still looks bad.

Handyhoof · 10/16/10, 6:05 PM

Reverse that. When you add 34 rating of both, your dodge only goes up a little because of DR. Your parry increases much more because it diminishes less. I.e. it's correct.