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Old 11/22/10, 10:15 PM   #16
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
I have uploaded the most recent version of my spreadsheet 5.1. It now includes engineering glove enchants, avalanche enchant and has numerous small fixes and tweaks. There are also more combat options to choose from on the Main page. I have updated it to the latest version of Zealotry also, to remove Zealotry from the GCD.

The one hole is the lack of GoAK modelling. I don't have any reasonable amount of data for that so there isn't any point in trying to model it yet. Once servers go live I will try to get data and get that modelled asap.

The sheet is probably done until live hits but if you do find bugs or have good suggestions let me know and I will work on getting them out asap.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

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Old 11/23/10, 10:14 AM   #17
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
I just uploaded version 5.11 this morning. It is identical to 5.1 except with a very minor calculation correction for glancing blows and a display correction for avalanche which did not affect the final damage number. Thanks to tlitp for catching these for me. No other changes.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

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Old 11/23/10, 1:32 PM   #18
KyrosKrane
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Bloodhoof
The Target Level values on the Main sheet currently show as Boss(83) and Trash(80). Those should probably be updated to 88/85 respectively. Not sure if it's a label issue only, or whether this actually affects calculations, though.

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Old 11/24/10, 10:40 AM   #19
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
Ah, indeed. It is a labelling issue only, no effect on calculations. I will get that fixed for the next update.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

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Old 11/30/10, 8:51 PM   #20
Handled
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Ner'zhul
Something you might consider getting added on the profession side is the Engineering Cogwheel Sockets, I think not having them devalues Engineering to much and as long as Blizzard keeps an off-set piece in the instance that is equal item level as the Engineering item with Cogwheel sockets Engineering will remain top.

Cogwheels

"They thought bosses just fell over the first night because of the tag over their head, and the most important thing was how much damage they could do at all times. Newsflash - it doesn't work like that."

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Old 11/30/10, 10:10 PM   #21
Lemina
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Dreadmaul
Originally Posted by Handled View Post
Something you might consider getting added on the profession side is the Engineering Cogwheel Sockets, I think not having them devalues Engineering to much and as long as Blizzard keeps an off-set piece in the instance that is equal item level as the Engineering item with Cogwheel sockets Engineering will remain top.

Cogwheels

Cogwheels only fit into engineering helms. From what was discovered in beta, engineering helms do not contain ANY stats at all - the cogwheels basically provide the stats on the helm to make it an equivalent ilvl epic - it merely offers more flexibility for stats on your helm. Unless blizzard introduces new engineering helms every teir (which they did not in wrath), cogwheels will remain nothing more than a way to customize your entry level helm.

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Old 12/01/10, 7:02 AM   #22
Handled
Piston Honda
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Lemina View Post
Cogwheels only fit into engineering helms. From what was discovered in beta, engineering helms do not contain ANY stats at all - the cogwheels basically provide the stats on the helm to make it an equivalent ilvl epic - it merely offers more flexibility for stats on your helm. Unless blizzard introduces new engineering helms every teir (which they did not in wrath), cogwheels will remain nothing more than a way to customize your entry level helm.
Engineering Helms don't have re-forgable stats you are correct, but 2 Cogwheels is the same as 10 gems in stat cost wise. The Engineering Helm is BiS for an offset it gives a ton of flexibility and overall has better stats than 359 T11

Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft

Sure Blizzard could drop the ball and only have Cogwheel sockets in the very first tier of gear and never again or it could they could do it right and have Engineer Patterns drop from the next tier Sunwell style.

"They thought bosses just fell over the first night because of the tag over their head, and the most important thing was how much damage they could do at all times. Newsflash - it doesn't work like that."

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Old 12/01/10, 10:13 AM   #23
Daler
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Handled View Post
The Engineering Helm...overall has better stats than 359 T11

Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft
Except that it doesn't. 321 str in the engineering helm after gemming vs. 331 str in the tier helm using an orange gem, which also brings the secondary stat point total up to 416, exactly equivalent to 2 cogwheels. The only advantage the engineering helms bring is flexibility, but when you can reforge every slot of gear (minus some trinkets) to mess with your secondary stat point allocation, flexibility is hardly a novelty.

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Old 12/01/10, 11:19 AM   #24
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
Yes, the Eng helms do not offer any advantage in raw stats but merely a flexibility advantage. You can easily enter them into my spreadsheet by simply putting the cogwheel stats in as regular stats so there is no need at all to model them specifically. Altering the sheet logic to recognize a variety of new 'gem' templates just so engineers can have their stats look more aesthetically pleasing is obviously not a top priority.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

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Old 12/04/10, 6:03 PM   #25
sjogren
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Sha'tar (EU)
I'm trying to run the exact same profile as the sheet has in simc and I'm getting about 5% less crits ... Are you sure you're accounting for the crit depression against bosses? I saw there's a cell for it in the Base Numbers tab but I can't figure out where it's actually used...

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Old 12/06/10, 10:03 AM   #26
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
Well, you have a good point there. The crit suppression was in fact not factored in at all. I will post a new version today with that bugfix and a few other small fixes. Turns out the spell crit suppression was also not factored in and that is corrected too.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

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Old 12/06/10, 10:43 AM   #27
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
Okay, final upload before Cataclysm goes live is up. -5.12 Notable changes:

Several small bug fixes and modelling corrections. Minimal impact. - thanks to kyroskrane, tlitp, theck
Fixed crit suppression - working now. - thanks to sjogren
Added herbalism support

Notable things that aren't there:

GoAK not modeled at all. I do not have data on the mechanics of this. If anyone wants to assist in perfecting the combat model this is the highest priority - I need to know exactly how this works. Attack speed, damage, does it inherit stats from the paladin, how does the buff stack with our other buffs (multiplicative, additive) and crit/miss/% damage benefits of the explosion effect.

Exorcism glyph may not be modeled correctly. tlitp clued me in to this, I need concrete data on how exactly it responds to % damage boosting effects, in particular 8% spell damage debuff. The impact is fairly small but it would be good to have correct data.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

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Old 12/16/10, 12:52 PM   #28
Calefax
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Magtheridon
Hey Redcape, I'm wondering how accurate you feel your modeling of Hurricane is in your spreadsheet. I remember in the old 4.0.1 thread you mentioned that Hurricane was trash, but also said you made some assumptions about it (I believe I remember you saying that you were assuming it worked like landslide and was 1 PPM).

The reason why I'm asking is partially because of the discussion going on in the current ret thread about being able to proc it from both melee and spells separately, and also because of my logs from my raid last night (I've been trying out hurricane, since getting a landslide enchant isn't very feasible at the moment):
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

You'll notice if you go to buffs gained that I gained the Hurricane buff 24 times in a 4 min 38 second fight, for a 59.1% uptime, which would certainly not point to something like 1 PPM (since the buff only lasts 12 seconds). Indeed it would seem that it's very possible to get a new hurricane proc while the old one is still active, refreshing it (if I had 24 separate procs for 12 seconds each, that amounts to 4 mins 48 seconds, which is longer than the fight duration so that certainly can't be right).

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Old 12/17/10, 11:03 AM   #29
Redcape
King Hippo
 
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Dwarf Paladin
 
Vek'nilash
1 PPM is based off unhasted autoattack. I presume you were using a normal rotation which provides a huge number of opportunities for additional procs.

My model for hurricane was to assume 50% uptime on the buff, which led it to be worse than landslide, avalanche and even berserking. Having actual data is vastly better though and if the real uptime is close to 60% then hurricane is going to definitely beat out berserking, but it will still be massively inferior to avalanche and landslide. Haste is just not a good enough stat to make hurricane worthwhile.

I will update the spreadsheet to reflect that new estimate however, if anyone else can confirm a 60% uptime on hurricane in a raid environment.

My Ret paladin spreadsheet: ->here<-

For questions regarding my spreadsheet or otherwise please contact me via PM on the EJ boards and not in game. Thanks.

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Old 12/17/10, 12:33 PM   #30
Calefax
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Magtheridon
OK, thanks for the info. I guess I misunderstood what 1PPM means (I assumed it meant that you could only get a single proc per minute, kind of like how trinkets have ICDs).

Still, I am very intrigued by the fact that you can get multiple hurricane procs at the same time (I'm fairly certain that I've seen this). If the current theory is correct about there being 1 hurricane proc for melee hits and a separate one for spells (which can consequently stack some of the time), how would that affect the value of hurricane? Surely this would make it significantly better than what your model currently represents?

I tried to look at your spreadsheet and figure out where the actual modeling of hurricane was represented to see if I could just mess with it myself, but I was unable to find it.

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