Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/13/11, 2:33 PM   #181
 emptyrepublic
International Technocrat
 
emptyrepublic's Avatar
 
Rebenton
Tauren Paladin
 
No WoW Account
I've done a few more updates, touching up things here and there. Given the recent confusion regarding how to calculate 102.4% to get full CTC (combat table coverage) I've made up what I think is a nice graph that hopefully should be clear to everyone. It should also help new tanks understand the difference between mitigation and avoidance.

(e): I've added a lot of little corrections including some clean up of some verbage.


Follow the development of the Cataclysm Protection/Tanking Field Manual; find out how you can help, additional instructions, and the to-do list at the link below:

ยป Paladin Protection Field Manual 4.0 Version - To Do List

Last edited by emptyrepublic : 01/13/11 at 6:21 PM.

Thailand Offline
Old 01/13/11, 2:57 PM   #182
James71
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Draka
Consider adding Fine Ember Topaz (Parry/Mastery) to the gem section of the Paladin Tank field manual.

+20 Parry Rating and +20 Mastery Rating
Item Level 85
"Matches a Red or Yellow Socket."

It should be mentioned as an affordable option for those that want to balance Avoidance and Mitigation.

While the +40 Mastery Gem [Fractured Amberjewel] might make more sense for pure table coverage, the Fine Ember Topaz is much more affordable and flexible in more slots.

I am no longer using Fine Ember Topaz because I decided to go with Puissant Dream Emerald in all Blue and Yellow gem sockets to balance Mastery and Stamina.

Offline
Old 01/13/11, 4:18 PM   #183
Wrathblood
Don Flamenco
 
Wrathblood's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Drenden
Theck,

Just to clarify, on the first test the character was untalented, while he WAS talented on the second one (pretty much a cookie cutter build, just with 2 in PotI instead of PoJ). No aura or seals were up for either test and the character was naked both times except for weapon. Did nothing but auto-attack both times. I'll do a larger sample for the slower weapon tonight.

Offline
Old 01/13/11, 6:33 PM   #184
Theck
Don Flamenco
 
Theck's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Tichondrius
I've already started taking a long parse with Zin'rokh. More data is always welcome, of course, but it might be more efficient to split our efforts to cover more of the unresolved questions.

The same offer extends to anyone else in the thread. There are several easy data sets that would be very helpful to us on the modeling end of things. If you have half an hour of time to kill and want to help out, take a look at that thread.

Offline
Old 01/13/11, 9:56 PM   #185
azaela
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Norgannon
Hey guys, really fast question about cooldowns that I couldn't find a positive answer to.
For tank cooldowns, are any of them stackable? I'm rather sure GoAK won't stack, but will the DR on AD and DProt stack for a total of 40%? Another, more specific question, if you glyph Dprot and use it with AD, will you gain 20% phys and 40% magic reduction, or w0% phys and 60% magic?

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 1:16 AM   #186
Fierss
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Whisperwind
It's multiplicative. You wouldn't gain 10% hp when hit by a spell with all 3 popped + glyphed - it'd be about 76% mitigation.


Different topic - I occasionally notice that AD won't proc, or will show in recount as +0 and nothing in the combat log. I can't seem to get it to occur on demand, regardless of what I do, but it seems like about 10-20% of the time, I'll die without it healing (possibly less, if I'm biased from when I notice it not saving me).

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 5:03 AM   #187
Jaybird
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Bronzebeard (EU)
I've been trying to max out my CTC (thanks for the term correction Theck) for the past couple days, reforging all my hit and expertise into mastery / parry, and one thing that I'm finding annoying is that Sacred Duty procs are lost if you miss with your SotR

I'm also trying the Wogger build - so far it seems alright, although as the HP drop off and then get refunded I sometimes don't notice that they're back until after I've queue'd a CS/HoR ... has anyone figured out a way to combat this? Maybe an addon that plays a sound when it procs?

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 8:46 AM   #188
Theck
Don Flamenco
 
Theck's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I'm also trying the Wogger build - so far it seems alright, although as the HP drop off and then get refunded I sometimes don't notice that they're back until after I've queue'd a CS/HoR ... has anyone figured out a way to combat this? Maybe an addon that plays a sound when it procs?
I use MSBT to play a sound when Eternal Glory procs, but unfortunately the sound doesn't go off until the Holy Power is regained, so there's still a slight delay. If I pay close attention, I can almost always catch it before I've queued my next CS, but in a raid environment (where there's a lot of other things to pay attention to) I run into the same problem you describe, and will miss a few over the course of an encounter.

I've read somewhere that this is an issue with the proper combat log event being slightly delayed, so it's probably not something we can do anything about. In other words, the ball is in Blizzard's court.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 12:38 PM   #189
James71
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Jaybird View Post
I'm also trying the Wogger build - so far it seems alright, although as the HP drop off and then get refunded I sometimes don't notice that they're back until after I've queue'd a CS/HoR ... has anyone figured out a way to combat this? Maybe an addon that plays a sound when it procs?
There is a slight sound effect to indicate that you have been refunded your 3 HP.
It is very soft and takes being aware of it to notice amid all of the other battle noise.

Quite often I am already into my next CS/HoR before I notice that I have all 3 HP back.
I have gotten better at catching it, but it will always be difficult.
It is quite powerful to be able to hit WoG (w/ 3 HP) two times in a row, especially with wings popped.
Do it even with full health and take the extra overflow shield.

Last edited by James71 : 01/14/11 at 2:02 PM.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 12:48 PM   #190
Iol
Don Flamenco
 
Iol's Avatar
 
Pandaren Shaman
 
Durotan
Originally Posted by James71 View Post
It is quite powerful to be able to hit WoG (w/ 3 HP) two times in a row, especially with wings popped. Do it even with full health and take the extra overflow shield.
This leads me to two questions;

1) Wich is worse; Losing a potential HP by having queued a CS while being refunded 3 HoPo or waiting that extra little time to make sure your following CS doesn't go to HoPo-less? (My guts says it's better to burn that CS then wait on a maybe, but I don't have maths to back this up...)

2) Do the WoG shield stack on itself? Say you WoG yourself for 20k, and you were missing 10k Health. You then have a shield of 10k. If you WoG again for 20k before taking damage, do you end up with a 30k shield or a 20k one?

You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than with a kind word alone.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 1:19 PM   #191
James71
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Draka
Originally Posted by Iol View Post
This leads me to two questions;
1) Wich is worse; Losing a potential HP by having queued a CS while being refunded 3 HoPo or waiting that extra little time to make sure your following CS doesn't go to HoPo-less? (My guts says it's better to burn that CS then wait on a maybe, but I don't have maths to back this up...)
I would not worry about one possible extra HP. I would certainly not delay your next CS/HoR hoping for the 3HP refund. There are plenty of inefficienies in the midst of any battle. Not doing anything on the hope of a RNG proc is not a good strategy.

Originally Posted by Iol View Post
2) Do the WoG shield stack on itself? Say you WoG yourself for 20k, and you were missing 10k Health. You then have a shield of 10k. If you WoG again for 20k before taking damage, do you end up with a 30k shield or a 20k one?
I will try to test that tonight. It is an excellend question. That shield is so short though that I am not sure it matters. There is a 1-2 sec delay on your Eternal Glory 3 HP refund. That overflow shield only lasts 6 seconds max if I recall. By the time you execute it again, it it only refreshes your shield time, then it was worth it.

Lets say you are at max health but in the midst of a raging hammering from adds and boss. Your max health is 160,000. But you currently have an overflow shield from the first WoG that has about 10k and declining. By the time you get that second WoG executed, your first overflow shield is likely mostly gone or has expired from time.

If all that happens is that you restart the timer or you get a fresh +20,000 health shield, then it is worth it.

My gut feeling is that the two shields do not add together because they are on different timers. My guess is that the 2nd one would just overwrite the 1st one, I will try to determine this definitively tonight.

Last edited by James71 : 01/14/11 at 2:02 PM.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 2:07 PM   #192
Puscifer
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Can some people check the actual blocked damaged % they are seeing in their combat logs with Holy Shield up please.

Tonight I noticed that only 30% damage was being blocked, even when Holy Shield was active. With it active I looked at the character Defense tooltip and it updated to say "Your block stops 40% of incoming damage", and returned to "Your block stops 30% of incoming damage" once Holy Shield faded.

However - doing the math from the numbers in combat log - the actual % of damage blocked, never changed.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 3:54 PM   #193
Skyhard
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Dunemaul (EU)
What is the general opinion about going for Tier 11 4set bonus versus going for Full CTC? I personally have not found a big use for it. Currently using GoAK without the Tier 11 4set bonus gives our healers more than enough time to get me up.

Offline
Old 01/14/11, 6:09 PM   #194
Theck
Don Flamenco
 
Theck's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Iol View Post
2) Do the WoG shield stack on itself? Say you WoG yourself for 20k, and you were missing 10k Health. You then have a shield of 10k. If you WoG again for 20k before taking damage, do you end up with a 30k shield or a 20k one?
20k. The shields will not stack. A bigger shield will overwrite a smaller one.

Offline
Old 01/15/11, 3:00 PM   #195
Feebs
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Rexxar
Originally Posted by Skyhard View Post
What is the general opinion about going for Tier 11 4set bonus versus going for Full CTC? I personally have not found a big use for it. Currently using GoAK without the Tier 11 4set bonus gives our healers more than enough time to get me up.
Although I haven't personally checked to see how much actual block/parry/dodge is lost by using 4pc, I can think of plenty of times where the opposite is true. The current duration may be long enough for my healers to recover, but any less damage I'm taking directly converts into more mana saved, as well as less direct healing stress. If solid evidence is presented to suggest otherwise then I would most certainly consider it.

Last edited by Feebs : 01/15/11 at 3:08 PM. Reason: Too tired for grammar

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4.0.3a Tanking/Protection Field Manual :: Fordring's Groupies (Updated: Dec 2, 2010) emptyrepublic Paladins 185 12/06/10 3:31 PM