The Retribution Concordance - 4.3, Voice of the DPS - Page 102

Babathong · 10/26/11, 1:09 AM

Latest PTR Ret changes:

Seal of Truth now scales from 13.5% of Attack Power, up from 9.65%.

Tobrexa · 10/26/11, 2:51 AM

Originally Posted by Babathong

Latest PTR Ret changes:

Seal of Truth now scales from 13.5% of Attack Power, up from 9.65%.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that just the (admittedly late) tooltip correction of the Censure buff? (in the tooltip of the spell on MMO, only Censure is buffed, SoT stays at 15%)

mackaque · 10/26/11, 3:16 AM

yes only a tooltip update

Butosai · 10/31/11, 9:51 PM

Taken from the paladin forums on mmo-champion.com

"Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps normal version proc is hitting for 21-25k on a dummy, it crit for 48k too and hits 2-4 times per spawn"

third hand information from a paladin that was askign questions about the weapon from a warrior that got it on the ptr. Very vague information ( no idea if there is an icd or not ) but it gives us some kind of an idea of the amount of damage the proc will be doing

lyx · 11/01/11, 5:27 AM

It has around 55-60s (usually was 57s) ICD also proc can miss/dodge/crit it hits every 2s, so 5-6 hits when it last. It doesnt look like it's depend on gear - hit/expertised capped still can miss/be dodged. Damage is similar when my character was naked (3k ap with some raid buffs/flasks/food) or fully geared (17k ap).

Doesnt look like any external CD/trinket or enchant proc increase dmg in any way.

10:11:00> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(18667 Overkill)
10:11:02> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(20126 Overkill)
10:11:04> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(19145 Overkill)
10:11:05> Iyx gains Iyx's Avenging Wrath.
10:11:05> Iyx gains Iyx's Zealotry.
10:11:06> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(21788 Overkill)
10:11:07> Iyx's Landslide fades from Iyx.
10:11:08> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(19331 Overkill)
10:11:08> Iyx gains Iyx's Landslide.
10:11:10> Tentacle of the Old Ones's melee swing hits Training Dummy for 1 Physical.(18924 Overkill)

With some static expertise/hit (miss/dodge ratio on boss Dummy is pretty high - 20-40% sometimes) it's like our GoAK before it was fixed also proc will be worth 0 dps on fight where you need to chase target - let say Shannox for example with kitting strategy (tentacle cant move).

parabad · 11/01/11, 7:54 AM

As far as it being unable to move I'm not certain. I had mine proc right when a mob died in a 5 man and its model followed me as i moved around. Obviously when it procs on the dummy and you move it stays rooted there attacking so its possible if it doesn't have a target it may be mobile until it acquires one. I did a small test on a mob in twilight highlands where I waited for it to proc and started kiting the mob. It definitely chases the target and continues to attack.

Another note, the tentacle is on the threat table and attackable unlike the guardian, it tanked a mob briefly during my testing.

Exemplar · 11/01/11, 8:53 AM

Rough rough rough numbers based on the above:
5 hits (and 1 miss/parry/dodge) per minute.
20k average per hit.

Average 100k/min, or 1667 DPS. This is in lieu of secondary stats.

Comparison:
Gurthalak (N) at no stats for 1667 DPS.
Experimental Specimen Slicer (N) at 319 Crit and 306 Mastery. Total rating: 625. Each stat rating would have to be worth 2.67 DPS to equal or exceed. Last I checked, not even Str was worth that much DPS.

Until (not unless - until - I'm confident it'll change values at least twice before release) Gurthalak is changed, it's far and away superior, even if you lose 1 proc in 3.

lyx · 11/01/11, 12:11 PM

I thought "beeing rooted" is intended weekness to balance proc dmg in pvp but if tentacle can move i dont think it will stay like this on live. It's way better then Bryntol was in ICC and we all know what happend back then.

saboya · 11/01/11, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by lyx

I thought "beeing rooted" is intended weekness to balance proc dmg in pvp but if tentacle can move i dont think it will stay like this on live. It's way better then Bryntol was in ICC and we all know what happend back then.

Well, Bryntroll, dropped from the very first boss of the instance, it is not the case here.

Exemplar · 11/01/11, 2:43 PM

In addition to saboya's drop location comment, Bryntroll, like TAiaJ, also behaved abnormally depending on your class. Ret had a lot more chances for it to proc than some other classes, therefore the proc alone provided different DPS for different classes.

Gurthalak appears to have a long internal CD and the tooltip states "your melee attacks" cause it to proc. Since it (supposedly) could not proc from spells then DK and Ret would not gain additional chances from things such as Diseases, Censure, or Seal procs. Technically Warriors would have the slight edge as all(?) of their attacks should be melee, while some attacks from a DK or Ret are magic.

This would be minor - 1 or 2 more chances in several GCD. It should really be the difference between, say, average proc rate of 55 seconds vs 57 seconds. That's a 3.5% variance. Infinitesimal compared to the 200%+ variances we saw back in ICC.

mackaque · 11/08/11, 6:09 PM

Probably the last buff we'll get before 4.3 but we never know.

Tier 13
Item - Paladin T13 Retribution 4P Bonus (Zealotry) now increases damage by 18%, up from 12%.

Bemxuu · 11/11/11, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Since it (supposedly) could not proc from spells then DK and Ret would not gain additional chances from things such as Diseases, Censure, or Seal procs. Technically Warriors would have the slight edge as all(?) of their attacks should be melee, while some attacks from a DK or Ret are magic.

Do not forget that Unholy DKs have 1s GCD which results in higher frequency of special attacks. I think, that covers the gap. But Rets are handicapped in this case. Maybe, each class would have his own proc rate (as it was for the Legendary staff) while having the same ICD - that seems to be fare.

Iroared · 11/11/11, 2:09 PM

Seing how our burst becomes much more compact with T13, it might be possible for selfless healer to become viable. I don't know how to set up simc for that, but it seems that popping WoG with zealotry, and delaying AW by ~2 seconds seconds (just guessing, since we're not doing any TVs for a couple GCDs) could be a DPS increase.
Napkin math as follows: TV would do an average of 40k damage (without AW), plus ~50% mastery times 30% inq, resulting in lets say 70k. In order for 12% damage for 10 seconds to outweight 70k straight damage, we need to do around 60k DPS for 10 seconds. I'll go ahead and say that should be easily possible with 18% bonus damage from zealotry.
Of course we'll have to lose eye for an eye, which could be bad on some fights (I doubt selfless healer could win 2% overall dps). On the other hand, some fights require more intense burst at certain times - with good timing, we could make great use of those stun/increased damage taken mechanics like Alysrazor/Ragnaros, in T13 content apparently Hagara.
And, if we need another lame reason, assuming we WoG a tank, he could stand in more fire to get more vengeance (not sure what the consensus on this is, I sometimes pretend to be bad at moving out of world in flames on p3 when damage counts).

Kinmaul · 11/11/11, 6:17 PM

Zealotry giving a bonus does nothing that that would make SH a viable dps increase. In t13 zeal and wings go back to the same duration so they should be used together, in t12 you could pop zeal and then wait since it was 35 seconds with 4pc, which means you aren't just missing out on the TV, but a TV that would have been boosed by 4pc and wings. That's going to be a lot more than 70k damage at t13 gear levels, and you are also losing a entire gcd during your cooldowns.

ilidan · 11/12/11, 6:03 AM

Im wondering, has anyone on the ptr tried comparing, at least on the dummy, if the Judgement glyph is in fact now a greater dps boost than the exorcism glyph, given the buff to Judgement for 4.3, and if so if anyone has any numbers or logs on the comparison of the two that would be helpful as well.