The Retribution Concordance - 4.3, Voice of the DPS - Page 107

saboya · 12/06/11, 12:55 PM

And JC also only starts sucking when you have 100% epic gems.

Handled · 12/06/11, 2:12 PM

Originally Posted by Icos

Can someone check my math here? Looking at Varo'then's Brooch vs firelands trinkets (specifically normal vessel and heroic apparatus).

The brooch has a 45 second ICD, which makes it's mastery worth 1149*(20/45), which comes to 510.67 mastery.

H AoK has a 15 second uptime and a 2 minute cooldown, which makes its mastery worth 2875*(15/120), which comes to 359.375 mastery.

Assuming stacks don't fall off, Vessel would give 410 crit.

Converting these values into strength at a rate of 2 mastery:1 strength and 2 crit:1 strength (which is about the stat weight values simcraft is giving me, and should be similar for most people), I get this effective strength value:

Brooch: 638.335
H AoK: 612.6875
Normal Vessel: 611

Am I doing something wrong here, or is Brooch actually better for us? Also, does anyone know if its use effect does anything of value for dps?

EDIT: Just got the trinket, use effect is insignificant (300-400 fire dmg, cleaving multiple targets on a 3min cooldown comes out to around 2 dps per target hit).

The ICD on all new 378 Trinkets is 50 seconds, However I have seen variation of 51-53 seconds between 3 of the new Trinkets. I have tested this in a number of LFR on my Shaman, Warrior and Ret. Not only is the Mastery trinket better but the Crit trinket is as well. The 378 Trinkets appear to be over budget as the up time is right around 38-40%.

Icos · 12/06/11, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by Handled

The ICD on all new 378 Trinkets is 50 seconds, However I have seen variation of 51-53 seconds between 3 of the new Trinkets. I have tested this in a number of LFR on my Shaman, Warrior and Ret. Not only is the Mastery trinket better but the Crit trinket is as well. The 378 Trinkets appear to be over budget as the up time is right around 38-40%.

I ran both through simcraft, and the mastery trinket (brooch) was better than normal vessel (didn't test heroic vessel), but not heroic apparatus. the rosary (crit proc) was worse than both.

Exemplar · 12/07/11, 9:05 AM

With Deathwing available via the LFR interface, I'd appreciate it if anyone could advise if they see a LFR Gurthalak drop (even better, win one). Reporting you have not seen one is not useful - RNG drops are RNG.

Blizzard stated that LFR would not drop weapons... but then they also said LFR would have separate achievements to distinguish it from Normal/Heroic, which is untrue.

So, can weapons drop in LFR? If they can, what is the base tentacle tick from an LFR Gurthalak? If there are no positive sightings within a week or two I'll take that silence as sufficient evidence that the weapons indeed are not present and remove them from my spreadsheet.

Similarly, I'd like to know the Heroic Gur tentacle tick once someone has one, so I can refine that modeling.

climaximus · 12/07/11, 9:43 AM

Exemplar,

I can confirm that LFR does drop weapons. I had Gurthalak drop in LFR last night but unfortunately did not win it.

Exemplar · 12/07/11, 11:06 AM

Then definitely looking for base tentacle tick damage for LFR Gurthalak.

For those debating whether an LFR Gurthalak would be an upgrade:
My guesstimate damage (10% weaker tentacles) shows that an LFR Gurthalak should be better than everything short of Heroic Sulfuras. Even if I increase this to 20% weaker, it remains short of Heroic Sulfuras and better than everything else in Firelands Normal/Heroic, or Dragon Soul LFR/Normal (Heroic non-Gur beats LFR Gur).

At 10% weaker it's within about 5 DPS of Sulfuras (in my gear - margin could increase with better gear). If the LFR tentacle is stronger than the guesstimated '10% less', it could beat Sulfuras by a tiny margin. My personal opinion would come down on the 'not worth swapping' side of any such debate. I would recommend anyone with a Heroic Sulfuras go directly to Normal/Heroic Gurthalak and skip the LFR version.

Hopefully this will encourage those who could benefit from an LFR Gurthalak to actually pick it up even if losing 1 iLevel.

Edit: Wowhead comment has a Warrior with this having 10.9k ticks - a bit higher than my original guesstimate (around 7.5% less than normal mode, rather than 10%). This would indeed, in theory, edge out a H Sulf by about 40-50 DPS. Again, I would personally recommend against doing so for such a small theoretical gain. Waiting on hard Ret data (due to Communion and lack of familiarity with Warrior self-buffs that could impact their own tentacle) before updating my spreadsheet..

Antarius · 12/07/11, 3:06 PM

Got LFR to drop Gurtharak last night for me.

I've gotten consistent results. With communion and an aura turned on. 8 ticks (always 8 ticks, never 9 or 10) of 10382 damage. Crits are 16040

Without an aura turned on, it ticks for 10080, and crits for 15573. That would put base damage at 9882.

Tested solo with nothing but self buffs. I did not test to see if it benefits from haste or any other source of damage increase other than communion.

Exemplar · 12/07/11, 4:56 PM

If we're now getting precisely 8 ticks, then LFR Gurthalak is a bit under my guesstimate (which was based on 8.5 ticks). Total damage around 83056 (before Crits, CoE, etc), rather than 90000. Definitely below H Sulf, but still in the range where it's ahead of everything else listed.

Has normal Gur also settled down to a reliable 8, or are we still occasionally getting 9? Alternately, anyone else with an LFR Gur reporting occasional 9 ticks?

parabad · 12/07/11, 5:06 PM

Still getting 8 or 9 on normal Gurthalak, went and quickly got 10 procs and 6 of them were for 9 ticks and 4 of them were for 8 ticks so who knows.

Antarius · 12/07/11, 5:28 PM

Nevermind, I was wrong about only getting 8 tick procs, just did more testing (evidently a sample size of 10 isn't enough, heh) and have gotten 9 tick procs now out of the LFR gurthalak

Exemplar · 12/07/11, 5:52 PM

Using 8.5 ticks that puts us back to about 88k, rather close to the 90k guesstimate. No change on order of weapon desirability.

Lychnuchus · 12/08/11, 3:40 PM

Anyone already doing trys on heroic Yor'sahj the Unsleeping?
I was wondering if the heal from Divine Storm does create a stack of
"Deep Corruption", which would be really annoing in a situation where
you have to aoe down the adds from the black bouble.

Butosai · 12/08/11, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by Lychnuchus

Anyone already doing trys on heroic Yor'sahj the Unsleeping?
I was wondering if the heal from Divine Storm does create a stack of
"Deep Corruption", which would be really annoing in a situation where
you have to aoe down the adds from the black bouble.

it does not

Ineedtofu · 12/08/11, 10:23 PM

As far as I know, most non "actual" heals do not count towards the counter. These include things like dk tank heals, mage evocate, divine storm, etc. also only the application of a hot increases the tick

mackaque · 12/09/11, 1:22 AM

You guys used this Gurthalak on Ultraxion ? I got no tentacle tick at all and did some research to find out the weapon is bugged on this fight. It seems also on the last phase on Madness of Deathwing the tentacle can't attack the boss. Anyone with the same problem ?