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Old 02/02/12, 3:24 AM   #1771
lyx
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Looks like Blizzard is messing with Sot mechanic - some people report thousand of SoT ticks in span of few seconds - i'm not affected by this but take a look on those random worl logs :

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

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Old 02/02/12, 8:21 AM   #1772
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
There was apparently a bug that caused over-proc of seals when using Divine Storm. This was apparently identified and resolved (server restarts) within the last 12 hrs or so.

From what I understand (I had no cause to use DS last evening, so was unaware of the issue until I read about it), DS would proc at least SoC many dozens or thousands of times on every use. Some were exploiting this to generate literally hundreds of thousands to over a million DPS.

Again, it was a bug. Our mechanics should not have changed. Again, it has been fixed. Our mechanics are back to functioning appropriately.

Back to: nothing to see here, patch should not impact us.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 02/02/12, 9:32 AM   #1773
Alensia
Glass Joe
 
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Human Paladin
 
Stormreaver (EU)
The strange part about this seal-bug is, that last night (after the patch) I didn't notice any odd behaviour at our HC Yor'sahj training. It would seem like a server-side malfunction (quite hilarious). Well, atleast we had fun for few hours

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Old 02/02/12, 9:37 AM   #1774
Podima
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Paladin
 
Duskwood
Hopefully not too many ret pallies get banned over this - from what it sounds like, there were quite a few people abusing the bug.

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Old 02/02/12, 10:03 AM   #1775
eyo
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Culte de la Rive Noire (EU)
Bug fixed.
It was funy to see your Censure stack, up to 5, with just one Judgment =) (and take the agro with it)

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Old 02/02/12, 2:53 PM   #1776
zeock9
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Sargeras
One can only suspect that Blizzard had tried to sneak in some kind of an as-of-unknown change to our Seal mechanic and horribly screwed up while doing so last night.

Anyone noticed anything different since last night's emergency restart?

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Old 02/02/12, 8:13 PM   #1777
stasis007
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Caelestrasz
A Blue post stated that it was related to underlying 'proc' code. Update on Retribution Paladin Bug

Apparently a variety of classes' attacks had mechanics still triggering Vengeance on Tanks in PvP. Seems slightly suspicious that whatever they changed only affected Seals of Command; so maybe they decided to (try to) fix the double proc on seals issue while they were in there.

Maybe it's something to look out for on the PTR.

I played a little in 'Dr Manhattan' mode. It only worked on Instance Servers, so was a server-side patch. Also, not all Instance Servers had the patch in effect.

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Old 02/12/12, 6:04 PM   #1778
Cloudio
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Arathor (EU)
Hello ,

I have a question about Gurthalak ( normal version ) and slicer ( Heroic version ) , today on ultraxion 25 hm i was able to pull high sustained dps by switching weapons . I have started with slicer to grant me high burst and switched to Gurthalak after around 40 seconds ( during the first hour of twilight ) . Then i switched back to Slicer after getting the 2nd twilight ( after around 45 seconds ) and so .

I have checked skada for that try and compared it with two players who used Gurthalak full time , and i had around 2 less procs .

Can anyone confirm that there is a specific timing where we can switch weapons so we can get the highest dps possible ? am not good with numbers but i would really appreciate if anyone can check this and try it out .

Regards
Cloud

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Old 02/12/12, 7:19 PM   #1779
Medieve
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Cloudio View Post
Hello ,

I have a question about Gurthalak ( normal version ) and slicer ( Heroic version ) , today on ultraxion 25 hm i was able to pull high sustained dps by switching weapons . I have started with slicer to grant me high burst and switched to Gurthalak after around 40 seconds ( during the first hour of twilight ) . Then i switched back to Slicer after getting the 2nd twilight ( after around 45 seconds ) and so .

I have checked skada for that try and compared it with two players who used Gurthalak full time , and i had around 2 less procs .

Can anyone confirm that there is a specific timing where we can switch weapons so we can get the highest dps possible ? am not good with numbers but i would really appreciate if anyone can check this and try it out .

Regards
Cloud
Best answer I can give, RNG is RNG. You got lucky with procs. All tests and parses I've seen up to this point hasn't led me to believe the proc nerf for Ret was revisited or reverted.

I can't find anything outside of favorable RNG that would have N Gurth at any time pull ahead of H Slicer. Even time between cooldowns, the higher weapon damage of H Slicer with secondary stats would prove superior in most cases than Gurth, except, like I've said, when RNG favors thou.

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Old 02/13/12, 8:40 AM   #1780
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Gurthalak does not have an internal cooldown. Every eligible attack (which is not all our abilities) has a 2% chance to produce a tentacle, even if the last attack just produced one.

There is no window during which a weapon with better raw stats would 'pull ahead' while waiting for Gurthalak to regenerate, as there is no cooldown through which to sit. Even if Gurthalak did have an ICD (which, again, it does NOT), swapping weapons would not gain benefit. For at least the last few years (when Blizz seemed to create a standard for trinkets and procs) anything which has an ICD has that ICD reset when the item is equipped, specifically to prevent these multi-swap scenarios. Click-use items have a forced CD on equip to semi-mimic this situation.

Example:
Item A has an ICD of 50 seconds. It procs. You swap to Item B for 50 seconds. You swap back to Item A - and its ICD resets - it will not proc for the next 50 seconds. The entire time you used Item B did not count towards resetting Item A.

The tools available will permit you to compare Gurthalak with an average proc (i.e. exactly 2%) to another weapon and determine which is better for your gear and raid setup. In actual use you will generally have better RNG sometimes and Gur will beat a weapon that, on paper, it should not, or worse RNG and it falls behind a weapon that, on paper, it should surpass.

Again - swapping gains no benefit. Stick with one weapon or the other.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 02/13/12, 11:37 AM   #1781
saboya
Faceroller
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Firetree
I can see weapon swaping during CDs/no-CDs periods. Using H Slicer for CDs and Gurthalak off-CDs. I never tried it but, like others said, it's all about Gurth's RNG. I got 416 Gurthalak last week and, during a H:Firelands run, I got a single proc on an entire Baleroc fight. This makes the weapon fall behind a lot, but you can't do much about it.

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Old 02/13/12, 6:25 PM   #1782
Cloudio
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Arathor (EU)
So assuming we get an addon that switch weapons every 12 seconds ( after getting a tentacle ) would be a large dps boost ? Considering that Gurthalak doesn't proc when there is a tentacle already , correct ? In addition

In theory it looks like a large dps boost , specially that you don't loose an existing tentacle when you switch to another weapon .

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Old 02/13/12, 6:36 PM   #1783
Podima
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Paladin
 
Duskwood
Repeating what Exemplar JUST said:
Gurthalak does not have an internal cooldown. Every eligible attack (which is not all our abilities) has a 2% chance to produce a tentacle, even if the last attack just produced one.
It is entirely possible to have more than one tentacle up at a time. I've personally seen 3 from my weapon alone. It's all RNG.

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Old 02/13/12, 7:04 PM   #1784
Grigorim
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Llane
I tried to come up with a Simulationcraft profile that would model just a single cooldown cycle, so that ESS and Gurth could be compared side-by-side under the optimal conditions for ESS. Not being an expert with Simulationcraft, I used the initial default ability queue with a 25 second fight length (max_time=25 on the Override tab; that should allow for all sim runs to build 3 HP and get the full 20 seconds of cooldowns). This means that GoAK was up too which won't be true every CD cycle, but I thought that was acceptable to get a best-case ESS figure. I imported Saboya with his H-Gurth and ran checks with and without Bloodlust, then did the same with a Heroic ESS and otherwise the same gearset. H-Gurth was about 800 dps better under bloodlust, and 1100 dps better without bloodlust. Do of course note that this is not overall fight dps; an 800 dps increase under CDs is maybe 130 dps for the overall fight. But either, way, at least when it comes to Heroic weapons Gurth is better even only looking at cooldown phases than ESS (these sims likely ignore any Mind Flay ticks from existing tentacles that would tick on past the set encounter length, so Gurth is likely a little better than advertised here).

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Old 02/14/12, 6:26 AM   #1785
saboya
Faceroller
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Firetree
416 Gurth has higher weapon damage too, so that helps a lot... I think you'd be better off testing 410 Slicer / 406 Gurth.

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