Right, but if the current implementation of HoL does go live, which is entirely possible, I really don't see what that is going to do for us. Your saying that it is a 5% dps increase, but how much mastery does that assume someone has. If Mastery is still our worst stat, we will continue to avoid it and reforge it off our gear, which ultimately means that there isn't much difference from live. Does obtaining more mastery at the expense of crit/haste yield more dps, or just more HoL damage. I think they need to make mastery desirable in order to achieve what they are trying to do here, and if making HoL scale with Inquisition is the answer to all of these questions, I really hope that they do so before the patch goes live.

Rough modeling was including Inquisition (and CoE), since Blizzard explicitly told us the Mastery is Holy Damage and is supposed to benefit. Apparently this is not how it is currently functioning - this is why it's rough modeling and not released. No increase definitely eats into its value, Redcape's comparison is accurate. With an Epic weapon TV still pulls ahead, but with something like the [Oversized Oblique Ogre Obliterator], priority remains unchanged from live. Insert sad pandas and other emo cliches here. I expect the next PTR iteration will have improvements.

If three stats (Mastery, Crit, Haste) were roughly equivalent, then I'm sure there would be circumstances where stacking more of one makes another more valuable (such as high Mastery could increase the value of Haste for faster CS, or Crit in order to proc x% of a double-damage attack). In short, aim for rough equivalency and let them fight amongst themselves.

If Mastery does not benefit from Inq (and CoE) then it may need to be better than 2.5% per value, rather than worse, to reach an equivalency.

Good point. If you add 5k damage (guaranteed DMC:H proc) to HoW (and a smaller value to Exo for its chance to proc) then HoW would pull slightly ahead (barring undead causing auto-crit for Exo).

Mastery linearly increases damage. ArmPen increased non-linearly based on the armour formula.

Talidus - wrong, wrong, and wrong. Listed values are not hit or expertise capped, it is naked with a crappy weapon. Every stat increases DPS. They can be compared using this common denominator. Crit is nicely linear, not a bell curve. Haste and Mastery are neither linear nor curved, but look like a dying man's EEG chart. All values provided are the average gained over 1000 rating increases. This is because in modeling some haste points become DPS loss (more conflicts, lost procs, etc). Note I even give Haste the benefit of the doubt (since negative points should be illusions compared to actual play) and any negative value is replaced by a zero to help the average. By giving an average it's something folks unable to use the present tools (spreadsheets) can at least plug into websites.

Crit is binary - an attack is normal or crit. For ease take a melee attack where a crit is double damage. We'll use 100 damage in the example as a simple, clean number. 100 total attacks.

# Crit	# Hit	Total Damage
1	99	10100
2	98	10200
5	95	10500
10	90	11000
25	75	12500
50	50	15000
99	1	19900

That looks pretty damn linear to me. Take any value of total damage, apply crit and it should increase linearly when averaged. In practice, since the RNG does not create averages you get wild fluctuation - one fight may be great, the next awful. Enough fights and overall you should personally reach your own average.

Each 1% of crit increased this example by 100 DPS. 1 Str would increase the example by X DPS. It's then basic math to compare 1 Crit Rating to 1 Str.

Rather than throwing out words like "cannot", instead post math which validates your views. Possibly even program a website, compiled program, or spreadsheet which can factor in all the complex details such as time, GCD, latency, and possible priority sequences.

GoAK
I'm still not modeling GoAK (and believe neither is Redcape), because it's frankly a mess. Modeling the Str boost shouldn't be difficult, but how much melee the pet performs and his explosion are fairly random at the moment. He's obviously a damage boost as frequently as he can be used. His buff increases the value of Str (multiplier effect), but as stat #1 that's moot. Gaining extra damage (click to use items or AW) during his Str bonus is naturally desirable. I've aimed for GoAK, delay, AW+Zealotry together (as my spreadsheet is still recommending their pairing). I'm unsure if AW during expiration of GoAK increases the explode damage. I would personally recommend something along the lines of GoAK, wait 9 seconds (or less if full stack is faster), pop AW+Zealotry to gain the whole 20 seconds during Str buff. AW would wear off 1 sec before GoAK explodes - I think the duration solely under Str bonus would override any bonus explosion damage.

I'm finding initial threat dicey (possibly epic weapon vs tank heroic weaponry). An early Zeal+AW often involves a HoS during this period, which is not ideal (lost GCD), even popping up Inq first. If the full Mastery change goes live, we'll definitely want Inq first. We obviously want to use as frequently as possible, so the earlier the better.

Wouldn't it be better to list the stat weights for gear something along the lines of Best in Slot Pre-Raid gear? Not everyone will be DPSing in BIS Pre-Raid gear, but it should be much closer to being in the correct ballpark for everyone than DPSing naked with a crappy weapon.

Wouldn't this change the stat weights for combat ratings significantly? If your base damage is extremely low due to being naked, then stuff like critting or gaining an extra attack would be almost negligible compared to stacking strength to make your DPS not be so terrible

Exemplar, I wanted to verify that combining AW/Zealotry is currently only being used on the PTR due to the changes in retribution's mastery, as the OP recommends not using them in conjunction.

Since Cata came out I started combining AW/Zealotry simply because CS CD is higher therefore I use HoW as a filler between CS and TV during Zealotry. Back in Woltk, with 3s CS, there was no fillers in between CS/TV during Zealotry. I believe OP is considering CS on a lower CD when it recommends not lining up.

You should only consider separating them during BL, when you'll be on a 3s CS CD.

Once Hit and Expertise capped the values of Crit, Haste, and Mastery do increase compared to Str. As you said, the harder you hit, the more value that a Crit (150%-200% damage) or Haste (additional attack over time), or even Mastery (sudden free attach), carry.

However, comparatively they do not change. Crit/Haste are close enough that I'm still inclined to treat them as matching. Haste appearing better or worse is really just a limitation in modeling. Any marginal favour towards one or the other is more likely to be a modeling illusion, rather than a truth. Pre-PTR Mastery is still as bad as ArmPen used to be.

An example, the gear I'm presently wearing (inputting my gear's stats to Redcape's spreadsheet):

Redcape	Exemplar
Stat DPS Compared to Str Str 2.00 1 Crit 0.78 0.39 Haste 0.40 0.20 Haste2 0.62 0.31 Mastery 0.16 0.08	Stat DPS Compared to Str Str 1.92 1 Crit 0.68 0.36 Haste 0.55 0.29 Mastery 0.31 0.16

Had to play the same game with haste I do in my spreadsheet - negative numbers became zero, otherwise the average gain was a negative number. Chuck the zeros entirely for Haste2.

I'll continue to state that I believe both spreadsheets undervalue Haste due to modeling size. I'll also continue to advocate treating it equivalent to Crit and advise anyone against excessive reforging for any perceived advantage going to/from Crit/Haste.

Bottom line - you want enough Hit/Exp to hit the cap (might not be possible solely through reforging if no items had native hit/exp). Once capped just work to avoid Mastery for now. If PTR Mastery is affected by Inq, grab as much as you can. Reforging really has made gearing simple.

AW+Zeal - Damn me, Hedonism, I'd swear I changed that, but looking at the OP you are correct. I will do so post-haste. Using them together has been advisable for some time.

This does reduce the relative value of those tank pieces that have higher Strength than equal iLvl DPS pieces, though ? And possibly the choice between 32ap and 50 haste/hit on boots.

In all honesty it depends on how much each of the secondary stats is worth in value compared to each other, and without a definite answer (due to Inquisition not increasing Mastery damage on the PTR, for one example) it can be tough.

The key would be to first finding the ICD values of trinkets (some examples in the Rogue subsection), and working under the assumption that you can reforge the worst stat on your gear set to cover your Hit and Expertise caps. The vast selection of gear, combined with Reforging, would make this quite a task.

At the very least, we could have to wait until the PTR data is finalized and pushed live before any creation of final lists can begin.

I'm more inclined to believe that there is not a BiS List thread because Rawr is not updated for cata, rather than anything else really, as it was the main tool, or the only tool might I add, used for generating the BiS lists. It was the main tool not because of its accuracy over other tools, but because of its ease of generating said lists.

Something seems problematic to me about this rotation. With the change to HoL, it's no longer necessary to use TV procs immediately to avoid losing future HoL procs, which I believe separates the Divine Purpose proc TVs from the 3 HoPo TVs in terms of priority.

Consider a situation in which you have 2 HoPo, CS is off cooldown, and you have a Divine Purpose proc. Assuming you don't get an AoW proc in the next two GCDs, your button presses will be either CS, TV or TV, CS. Both have the same results in terms of damage dealt, HoPo generated and chances to proc DivPurp, but prioritizing CS leads to it cooling down 1.5 seconds quicker. This suggests that CS > proc TV in terms of priority, unless the proc is actually about to run out, which shouldn't occur in typical play. Am I missing something that affects this analysis?

From what your saying, why would a Divine Purpose TV be any different than a normal TV in terms of priority? They both will hit for the same thing, and because TV hits harder than CS, I am assuming that is why TV will be ahead of CS in the priority. I see what your saying about CS coming off cd quicker, however if that were the case, why wouldn't you prioritize CS ahead of TV always? Divine Purpose now becoming our new proc mechanic, and replacing the existing HoL, I feel like it would still hold true that you would want to use the DP proc as quickly as possible in order to allow the next proc to occur. This doesnt really change much in terms of priority though because TV is ahead of CS anyways in the new system and should be used as soon as you have 3 HP as long as Inquisition is up. Also, your point about using the priority that you specified with the exception of when you have an AoW proc will no longer be valid either as Exorcism does not proc the new Mastery, which again is why I am assuming it has fallen back in the rotation.