By no means do I think it's a waste, especially if you are judging on cooldown, but its effectiveness certainly is going to be situational.

After raiding a few times recently I've realised that having 2/2 in Imp. Judgements and 1/2 in EJ (as I currently do) is wasteful, and I'm going to be moving a point out of Imp. Judgements accordingly. I am going to have to look over some parses (which I can't really do from work) before I make any kind of decision, but I think that filling out 3/3 ToR will be more beneficial than going 2/2 EJ and keeping only 2/3 ToR.

I've noticed since dropping from 3/3 to 2/3 ToR about a week ago, I feel like I have significantly less HP to throw around. Since ToR's nerf I've seen quite a few people dropping it completely (and arguments supporting this), and to me it seems to be an all-or-nothing talent now - it just doesn't seem to work well in a raid situation without being 100% chance to proc. You either drop it and adjust your beacon placement strategy, or keep it and heal in a similar way to beforehand, albeit with less HP generation when tank damage is at a lull.

WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie.

There are no non-mandatory for tier advancement WoG talents in this spec. You can drop the cleanse point for raiding to get 1/2 blessed life. How are there not better options?

I like that spec, it's one of the two options I think we can consider right now, here's the other

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The point I have in eternal glory can be put into whatever you want.

This spec is superioir in my eyes 2/2 in Enlightened Judgements, The extra heal is nuce. You do gain 5 extra yards by haveing another point in improved Judgements. Or you gain Last Word however what I find as the kicker for this Talent is the hit. Im fairly certain that Cleanse can miss. (I have yet to see any evidence saying that it can not miss in a raid encounter) But if Cleanse can miss, this talent is superioir to all other's in my mind. The option is A: Last Word an additonal 30% crit chance on an ability that likely already has 50%+ crit when a target is below 35% Health or B: +10 Extra yards on Judgement ( whitch is only a net gain of 5 yards as Enlightened Judgements has an additonal 5 yards to begin with. The discussion on Blessed Life from this board looks like it is not worth the talent point.

The other alternative is to drop Eternal Glory and one point in Enlightened Judgements to fill out Pursuit of Justice as shown above, Personally I think this to be a lesser option. It does come down somewhat to taste and how you heal, However Eternal Glory is a RNG talent and some people rarely even use Word of Glory. However I think the talent to be worthwhile as Light of Dawn's Recent cut in healing. There are alot of variables for Light of Dawn Positioning hitting all 6 targets aswell everyone takeing some damage that you hit. Word of Glory sometimes does come out as the better choice then Light of Dawn and if that Talent procs you can get a Light of Dawn in or a 2nd Word of Glory. Pursuit of Justice is a nice talent, however all it does is allows you to reach your destination slightly faster and begin healing again. That isnt worth that much. Depending on the Encounter of course, I haven't seen any heroic modes yet however from Normals i have yet to see a situation where I wished i had Pursuit of Justice.

WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie



*going back a little bit*
Does anyone have evidence to support if Cleanse can or can't miss without 2/2 EJ? All my logs and experience come from haveing the talent and have no way of getting up to date logs with 1/2 the acception being Heroic 5 man's whitch arent level 88 elites.

This will of course depend on you raid comp, but people might be putting too much weight on holy power generation. We usually have three paladins, two shamans and two priests in the raid. With all that AOE healing to throw around, it might be beneficial to focus more on bringing the people that are really low on HP up. That's why I've taken all the WoG talents and end up usually casting DL and WoG on the people below 50k health. I'm not falling far on the meters from people in the double tide group focusing mainly on AOE healing and shamans and druids certainly can't touch my output.

Beacon makes us very effective at healing single targets and there is often need for it. You don't have to always be maxing out your LoD output anymore. I've never used CS and I don't always have LoD glyph on.

I'm not interested in the EJ heal at all, even though I usually judge on cooldown. The tank either needs heal or doesn't. If he does, you're casting DL on him, if he doesn't, he'd get the needed healing from the next spell you cast on a raid member anyways.

Often one DL won't bring the target even close to full health, so topping them with FoL and still having mana after that becomes an impossibility. I won't touch FoL outside Chimaeron.

its pretty obvious why you would use DL over FoL.. FoL is roughly 2.4 Healing per 1 mana, DL is roughly 3.1 healing per 1 mana, HL is about 4 healing per 1 mana.. it might not seem like much but in a 6 minute boss fight if you opt to FoL instead of DL everytime you need something bigger than HL, you will oom.

The healing from EJ is negligable but I've looked at some of my parses that looked like EJ was 2% of my total healing, but I think a lot of good guilds still think HPS meter output is the biggest factor to determine an exceptional holy pally from an average one. Perhaps persuit of justice is the way to go (particularly for al akir it can make a difference) but if you're with a guild where you must do anything you can to boost your HPS it's the only remaining talent that can do it.

I dont have core and jar yet, but im assuming thats what you're using when you talk about trinkets in a double tide group? Do you use divine plea during combat? i think i read your post properly, it just seems obvious to me that instead of going for more FoL you would simply replace a higher % of your HL casts to DL since they have the same cast speed

In your theoretical infinite sustainability of casting FoL as a replacement for HL/DL (due to its higher HpS and the fact that HpM is being ignored), the only situations where casting Divine Light would be better would be under the effects of Infusion of Light, or where you need to focus on Healing per Cast rather than Healing per Second - think of a situation somewhat like Loatheb where you have the choice of only casting 1 FoL against only 1 DL, then DL would win. It's very situational, of course, but it's a possibility.

I was using core and the jc owl and yes, I use divine plea when possible. I guess it comes down to raid composition (I had two tides), role (I am usually healing with melee and do quite a bit of aoe healing in the melee and the faster HP generation via FoL is nice), and the encounter itself (we're a casual guild and are not on heroics yet).

I'm not suggesting that it's always possible, for example, tonight we had zero resto shaman and I did switch from FoL to DL on our Council and Cho'gal kills. My point simply is that there are fights and situations when FoL is currently sustainable. Also, like I said earlier, we are not in Heroic modes yet. I imagine most of those will not allow FoL over DL.

Not sure why you assumed we failed before this..... This was our first night of attempts ever on Cho'gal. Also, our kill was quite clean with no deaths. I had been quite sick and did not raid at all prior to this week aside from Conclave and BH. I'm not sure why it's so controversial to say that it's possible to use FoL over DL in certain setups, I'm not trying to argue with anyone here, I'm just saying it can be done.