Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01/11/11, 5:25 PM   #241
j43riz
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Frostwolf (EU)
What do you think about the new alchemy trinkets? Vibrant Alchemist Stone seems to be very nice for us. You gain 30 Intellect more and you could reforge haste to spirit and 40% increased efficiency of mana potions at least. I think it could be a good choice as a 2nd pre-hardmode-loot trinket.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 5:51 PM   #242
Evarella
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Noules View Post
I suppose what this all comes down to is, what formula(s) did you use to generate your chart?
I'll have a look at beacon effects when I get the chance (might be a few days) since I may well have overlooked it in the formulae.

Mana regen formula I used is:

Combat regen: 1% of base mana per second (i.e. 234.22 mana per second, or 1171 mp5)
Spirit regen: Spirit * sqrt(Int) / 298.95 mana per second.

Effective combat regen for holy pallies is combat regen plus half of spirit regen.

So for your stats of 4901 Int and 2296 Spirit, that gives spirit regen of 537.67 mana per second, or 2688 mp5 (rounding down).

So the character sheet calues ought to be 3859 mp5 out of combat and 2515 mp5 in combat, by the formula I used. That seems to match your number for OOC and be out by 1 for combat regen. That's good enough for me (as as side note, every case I have calculated has the OOC regen right and the combat regen too high by 1 mp5...).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 6:16 PM   #243
Jinks
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Neptulon (EU)
Originally Posted by j43riz View Post
What do you think about the new alchemy trinkets? Vibrant Alchemist Stone seems to be very nice for us. You gain 30 Intellect more and you could reforge haste to spirit and 40% increased efficiency of mana potions at least. I think it could be a good choice as a 2nd pre-hardmode-loot trinket.
The trinket does indeed look nice, but I don't understand why on earth would you reforge haste into spirit (for this item). I'm no math wiz, but the 40% increased efficiency of mana potions is on par with the use effect on Core of Ripeness, if not better (4000 mana every 2 minutes vs ~2000 spirit for 20 seconds every 2 minutes).

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 7:16 PM   #244
aggixx
Von Kaiser
 
aggixx's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Jinks View Post
The trinket does indeed look nice, but I don't understand why on earth would you reforge haste into spirit (for this item). I'm no math wiz, but the 40% increased efficiency of mana potions is on par with the use effect on Core of Ripeness, if not better (4000 mana every 2 minutes vs ~2000 spirit for 20 seconds every 2 minutes).
You can only use one mana potion per fight, so it would be a flat 4k mana.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 7:16 PM   #245
amnerys
Glass Joe
 
amnerys's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Proudmoore
Updated patch notes for the PTR include more changes to holy paladins.

* Divine Plea (glyphed) restores 18% mana over 9 seconds
* Duration of Forbearance reduced to 1 minute.
* Lay on Hands now causes Forbearance on all targets
* Lay on Hands cannot be a critical effect and will not be affected by most abilities which modify healing (such as Beacon of Light).
* Protector of the Innocent heals for 30% less.

I'm guessing the second LoH change simply means that LoHing one target will not cause 50% of the healing to transfer to the beacon?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 7:39 PM   #246
aggixx
Von Kaiser
 
aggixx's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by amnerys View Post
I'm guessing the second LoH change simply means that LoHing one target will not cause 50% of the healing to transfer to the beacon?
I would assume this means it's not affected by CDs either. Not that that really matters much, because it usually tops the target off unless they have some sort of mortal strike debuff.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 7:40 PM   #247
eternalwhitemoon
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by aggixx View Post
You can only use one mana potion per fight, so it would be a flat 4k mana.
Unless you have a lull in the fight where you can use Potion of Concentration over Mythical Mana Potion, in which case your returns would be greater, as alchemist stones affect these potions as well. I try to use Potions of Concentration over Mythical Mana Potions because of the greater mana return, unless it's a fight I know I won't really get a break on.

Last edited by eternalwhitemoon : 01/11/11 at 7:52 PM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/11, 7:47 PM   #248
aggixx
Von Kaiser
 
aggixx's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by eternalwhitemoon View Post
Unless you have a lull in the fight where you can use Potion of Concentration over Mythical Mana Potion, in which case your returns would be greater, as alchemist stones affect these potions as well. I try to use Potions of Concentration over Mythical Mana Potions because of the greater mana return, unless it's a fight I know I won't really get a break on.
Forgot to mention this, thanks. If you're going to take this route you can use it at the same time as divine plea (depending on your philosophy on DP).

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 2:34 AM   #249
DougyDoug
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Malfurion
I've been raiding 2/2 Blessed Life for 2 weeks now with no ToR. Top 20 on every boss downed at the time of downing. Tonight we downed 8 bosses and I gained a total of 71 holy power from Blessed Life, and 106 from Eternal Glory.
I personally think ToR is a waste of 3 points. I would consider getting it if it were 1 point. The HP gains from BL and EG average higher than ToR is for other ranking pallies I am looking at in the logs.
I know the 1/2 vs 2/2 BL debate has died off, and so has the ToR discussion, but my opinion is drop ToR completely. Use BoL like we did in Wrath, and enjoy the free HP from BL/EG.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 4:27 AM   #250
Jinks
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Neptulon (EU)
I guess it depends on what you heal. If you're on single target duty, ToR will give better returns.
Also, what are you sticking the extra points into that you can't take both BL/EG AND ToR?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 12:21 PM   #251
Nodrak
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Khaz Modan
Originally Posted by DougyDoug View Post
I've been raiding 2/2 Blessed Life for 2 weeks now with no ToR. Top 20 on every boss downed at the time of downing. Tonight we downed 8 bosses and I gained a total of 71 holy power from Blessed Life, and 106 from Eternal Glory.
I personally think ToR is a waste of 3 points. I would consider getting it if it were 1 point. The HP gains from BL and EG average higher than ToR is for other ranking pallies I am looking at in the logs.
I know the 1/2 vs 2/2 BL debate has died off, and so has the ToR discussion, but my opinion is drop ToR completely. Use BoL like we did in Wrath, and enjoy the free HP from BL/EG.
Last Time I checked, Tower of Radiance was giving greater-then-beacon returns under FoL conditions. This makes it useful in certain situations.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 1:09 PM   #252
DougyDoug
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Malfurion
Certain situations where tanks are taking heavy damage, yes. In those situations cds are being used, negating incoming damage considerably (using HoS in junction with the tank's 1min cd, then walling another time, and repeating). The times are small enough and few and far between enough where I plan on using my LoH during one of them (letting tank know) for the mana return, and between the rest of our cds the damage becomes negligible to the point where FoL is not needed. I rarely ever cast FoL let alone on the BoL.
For me it comes down to ToR is 3 points or none, and those 3 points are useful in other places. Could be a personal preference, but getting high ranks against other holy pallies should count for something.
Also, what are you sticking the extra points into that you can't take both BL/EG AND ToR?
Talents & Glyphs - Game - World of Warcraft
40 yards on judgment allows use on cd more than you think. I'm moving around constantly for optimal positioning and not seeing "Not in range" is extremely pleasing.
As far as I'm concerned if one accepts the fact that ToR is mostly worthless, and in not getting it you free up your playstyle considerably, I think I have the cookiecutter spec for this xpac right now. Pursuit isn't needed because Lavarunner exists.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 3:59 PM   #253
TheEnder
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by DougyDoug View Post
Certain situations where tanks are taking heavy damage, yes. In those situations cds are being used, negating incoming damage considerably (using HoS in junction with the tank's 1min cd, then walling another time, and repeating). The times are small enough and few and far between enough where I plan on using my LoH during one of them (letting tank know) for the mana return, and between the rest of our cds the damage becomes negligible to the point where FoL is not needed. I rarely ever cast FoL let alone on the BoL.
For me it comes down to ToR is 3 points or none, and those 3 points are useful in other places. Could be a personal preference, but getting high ranks against other holy pallies should count for something.

Talents & Glyphs - Game - World of Warcraft
40 yards on judgment allows use on cd more than you think. I'm moving around constantly for optimal positioning and not seeing "Not in range" is extremely pleasing.
As far as I'm concerned if one accepts the fact that ToR is mostly worthless, and in not getting it you free up your playstyle considerably, I think I have the cookiecutter spec for this xpac right now. Pursuit isn't needed because Lavarunner exists.
I've tried your posted spec; don't really like it... but it might just be personal preference (which is what Blizz wanted I guess!).

Here's what I use; and this has been a result of a lot of testing and personal trial and error:
Talents & Glyphs - Game - World of Warcraft

Personally; 1 point in imp judgement is plenty. I am constantly staying within 30 yards of melee (or ranged if we're grouping) in order to maximize LoD usage. If you're not in a position to use this effectively; you've already lost your efficiency from Holy Power. If you're moving constantly when you could be healing (that is, when a boss mechanic isn't requiring you to move); you've already lost overall healing efficiency.

That's the spec I have ended up on. I like it. I prefer it. With no "instant gib" AOE ability in the game that isn't meant to kill you; Aura Mastery is useless. I am referring of course to infest from H-LK. I have found some uses for AM, but they are so few and far between that the benefits it provides are, currently, not worth the point in PVE.

Finally, Blessed Life. The difference in 1 point and 2 points, in a full run, was not very remarkable. Having just ONE point generated an insane number of procs... and with the ICD... fast acting AOE's will proc it once. No more.

What ToR provides, regardless of your healing role, is on demand holy power generation. This is helpful before predictable AOE. HS someone, then fire off 2 FoL or DL on the tank to get yourself capped on HP. Quickly. Then fire off the LoD. This is very useful in situations like Maloriak fued phases when you need on demand AOE healing. You can generate a lot of HP fast, then let loose with quick LoDs.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 4:13 PM   #254
UFTimmy
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Medivh
Aura mastery may not be needed to save the day like it used to be, but it's still a short cool down that can save the raid a good amount of damage. It can be a tremendous mana saver, and it's just one point.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/11, 5:35 PM   #255
Lovella
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Zenedar (EU)
I like to think about aura mastery as the "just because you dont actually see it doesn't mean it's not useful" spell. This has been an ongoing argument since as far back as Ulduar days. We've had this spell for nearly two years now and there are still questions about it's actual usefulness. People have never actually been able to visualise the mitigation effect for themselves and therefore they do not see it as useful despite it actually being able to "absorb" an incredible amount of damage.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what people are saying. But let me put it like this in an incredibly crude way. The amount of damage that one aura mastery could mitigate might be the equivalent of casting two holy radiances worth of damage on the entire raid. How much mana is that? 18k.

I have not done any fights on heroic yet but I would presume that the amount of damage that it can mitigate on such aoe effects such as on Magmaw, Omnitron (Incineration), Valiona, and Ascendant Council fights could be a life safer due to such high hps requirements on those bursts of aoe damage.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Paladins

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cataclysm Holy Priest Compendium Rosin Priests 654 08/27/12 6:26 PM
The Cataclysm Holy Paladin Compendium CrazyScot Paladins 53 11/12/10 6:39 AM