[Holy]Cataclysm Holy Compendium (4.0.6) - Page 28

Palados · 02/08/11, 2:15 AM

I consider Guardian as quite strong CD and use it as such - when big damage is incoming. As for plea - I haven't seen a fight yet where you can't find the moment to use it with minimal risk. As soon as you move out of the mindset that tank HAS to be topped at ALL times you will see that using plea is not that unforgiving (though at some times he has to be topped even in cata

).

Xanro · 02/08/11, 3:25 AM

GoAK should only be used in emergency situations, not in favor to use it 2 times in a fight (except for Chimaeron heroic were the 5min CD perfectly fits to use it twice). In fact, if used when most of the (25) raid is stacking up at a position (Magmaw, Chimaeron, Omnotron,Chogall, Nefarian etc.) it is exactly as effective as a Tranquility or Divine Hymn. You can also use it as an CD to top of your Tank if he really needs to be at full HP (Council: Terrastra, Nefarian at x10%, etc.).

You should pop Plea only when there are phase transitions (as there rarely is any damage incoming). If that possibility is out, try to Pop Plea with Wings (+Trinkets/Engi hands) to reduce the healing deficite and ask Tank or fellow Healers to take a CD or watch out for the Tank. (post 4.0.6 this will be much easier as Plea is only 9 sec)

Edit: You could also use a Hand of Sacrifice if you still feel uncomfortable with still 30% heal reduction...

Re� nholt · 02/08/11, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Spey

Patch today indicates that Lay of Hands will now cause Forebearance on target. Forgive me, but I am not at all sure if this means target will not be able to use some critical cd's or abilities, particularly those available to tanks. Please advise.

If lay on hands is cast on a paladin tank he wont be able to bubble himself in any way and anyone else wont be able to use HoP or LoH on the target for 1 min. I wouldn't call it critical cooldowns though, maybe mechanic workarounds wont be an option but not critical cooldowns.

flyingtoastr · 02/08/11, 10:38 AM

It is true that LoH will now lock out a tank from being targeted by Divine shield, Hand of Protection, and additional Lay on Hands casts for a minute. I think it's a fair trade give just how powerful Lay on Hands is, though. A zero mana cost, off the GCD, instant cast, 100k+ heal is incredibly potent in the current healing model (it would take 4+ Divine Light's just to equal that healing). It does require a bit more foresight to use LoH now, especially in raids with numerous Holy Paladins, but it isn't anything crippling to the ability.

Xanro · 02/08/11, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Spey

Patch today indicates that Lay of Hands will now cause Forebearance on target. Forgive me, but I am not at all sure if this means target will not be able to use some critical cd's or abilities, particularly those available to tanks. Please advise.

I guess it will prevent this really annoying situation: Tank and (or 2x) Healer use their LoH simultaneously which is waste of CDs.
The only encounters I could imagine this to become a problem is Halfus (Huge incoming Tankdmg + the MS only dispellable via HoP). The positive aspect is the decrease of Forbearence to 1min, making the use of more HoP/Bubble on the same Char (e.g. during Halfus roar).

PS: Does LoH still scale with Mastery?

Mogurii · 02/08/11, 12:27 PM

As far as I've read it is no longer affected by healing multipliers such as Walk in the Light, and Divinity. I've not heard of the devs removing our mastery bonus from LoH post patch, but perhaps someone has found this on the PTR already?

flyingtoastr · 02/08/11, 1:17 PM

Just hopped online to check: LoH is still giving a proc of Illuminated Healing.

Interestingly it still must be affected by at least some of our healing modifiers. My health pool is ~121k but my LoH still healed me for 142726.

dbl219 · 02/08/11, 5:04 PM

Originally Posted by dcemuser

aggixx: With the new Mandala of Stirring Pattern's INT proc, you may want to add it to your table. If you use Divine Plea during Mandala procs, it could come out to be really amazing.

Yeah, I'm dying for concrete theorycrafting information regarding the new Mandala proc. I'm currently rocking [Jar of Ancient Remedies] and [Darkmoon Card: Tsunami]. I wouldn't mind replacing the Jar, as while I use its ability fairly often, there are times that either I forget to use it at an appropriate moment, or am sitting at full mana due to good RNG and/or a non-mana intensive encounter.

I'd be very interested to know how it stands up to the rest of the trinkets out there.

Megacode · 02/08/11, 7:30 PM

Looking for a little advice:
1) I wear Light Elementium Chestguard. With the recent change to it is it worth replacing with the T11 chestpiece to get the Spirit and 2pc bonus??

2) I use Mandala of Stirring Patterns Trink. With the recent change is it worth the "Long Farm" to replace it with the healing Archeology Trink(Doll)??
Appreciate any advice

Blutelf · 02/08/11, 9:58 PM

I am not sure whether the Mandala + DP combination is going to be too useful for a lot of people. Usually we need to choose a convenient time for DP based on boss phase status/immediate healing requirements rather than being allowed by the encounter to align DP with a trinket proc. It may be one of those things which sound really good in theory but just are not worth it in practice.

Eelysa · 02/09/11, 12:23 AM

I'm going to have to agree with Blute here. in a perfect world we want to pop DP at times when we don't need to be healing, such as magmaw's vulnerable phase. We're not healing, so we aren't casting (judgement aside), so we're not procing something like Mandala. If you have to DP during a healing portion of the fight lining it up with mandala is great both for regen and for a bit lessened impact of the DP MS, but that's not something that's really worth giving up a spirit trinket for regen purposes if you have the availability.

Naronas · 02/09/11, 1:24 AM

Note on DMC:T for holy.

Though there is a a 10 sec ICD on DMC:T spirit, meaning that we will have a stack time. However, if you pop a HR it will instantly stack your Card to 5. If you do this before pull, this can result in no mana lost, and increase the uptime on the trinket to 100%

Zalinda · 02/09/11, 3:44 AM

Originally Posted by Re� nholt

If lay on hands is cast on a paladin tank he wont be able to bubble himself in any way and anyone else wont be able to use HoP or LoH on the target for 1 min. I wouldn't call it critical cooldowns though, maybe mechanic workarounds wont be an option but not critical cooldowns.

The bigger picture of this is that it makes paladin tanks more of a problem during the "oh shit" moments compared to other tanks, and therefor puts us at a disadvantage.
This exact same mechanic was introduced earlier (somewhere in wotlk) and reverted because of this very issue.

I can understand LOH giving a debuff on a target preventing another LoH. But a healer casting LoH preventing the tank from using his own CD's is bad design. If blizzard persists with this design, then bubble and LoH shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Consider an expected moment with high incoming damage and the tank is low HP. Can the healer use LoH to get the tank up only to then have the tank unable to use his own tanking abilities ?
A warrior tank can still use shield wall after receiving a LoH, but a paladin tank can't use his "bubble wall" under the same conditions.

Hendrixstorm · 02/09/11, 4:12 AM

Originally Posted by Naronas

Note on DMC:T for holy.

Though there is a a 10 sec ICD on DMC:T spirit, meaning that we will have a stack time. However, if you pop a HR it will instantly stack your Card to 5. If you do this before pull, this can result in no mana lost, and increase the uptime on the trinket to 100%

This is incorrect. The proc has been reduced to a "chance". There is no ICD. I just logged on and cast a few holy lights on myself, sometimes it stacked twice in a row, sometimes it did not. If there is an ICD it's lower than the cast of most of our heals and is therefore irrelevant because we're talking about the first 20 seconds of the fight at MOST. (If beacon and PoTI proc it, then it probably would stack on every cast)

Originally Posted by Zalinda

Consider an expected moment with high incoming damage and the tank is low HP. Can the healer use LoH to get the tank up only to then have the tank unable to use his own tanking abilities ?
A warrior tank can still use shield wall after receiving a LoH, but a paladin tank can't use his "bubble wall" under the same conditions.

This is also incorrect. Guardian of the Ancient kings, Ardent Defender, andDivine Protection do not cause forbearance. That means when you lay on hands ANY class of tank they cannot be BoP'd. The only disadvantage this has is forberance would not allow Divine Shield to be used, which isn't really a tanking cooldown per se. Yes it can circumvent some debuffs, but those types of debuffs are usually HoP clearable anyways. This change will go unnoticed by any tanks who do not need to use divine shield.

P.S: I might have been looking at my combat log wrong, but I just cast a LoD on 10 people whom I was not grouped with in stormwind, and it healed them all, although I know for a fact the 6 heal cap was working in a raid. Does this mean there is a bug with the target cap on players who are not in your group/raid?

Naronas · 02/09/11, 4:42 AM

I just checked parses, and if it has been reduced to just a chance, according to my nubmers it must still well over 90%, as mine didn't miss a chance to proc. You are correct there is no more ICD. Also, it procs of beacon heals, PoTI heals (I believe, testing would be apreciated), and Judgement heals.