Edit: The post below me made me look quite the fool. Removed original post due to lack of patch note reading comprehension.

Is the relic of Norgannon (haste + crit) worth using in any hard-mode fight? I checked profiles of many paladins and even haste-lovers use the relic of Eonar. I have badges to spare and was wondering whether anyone has both relics and switches them depending on encounter.

I haven't seen the particular need in normal modes as throughput isn't nearly as problematic. Without having fist hand knowledge, I could guess that there may be some value in trading regen for haste in some heroic raids. The issue I see is that currently we still have a tool available to us (FoL) that is higher hps than our standard DL spam, which means that more mana can still directly translate into higher hps (via using more FoL). The real concern would be at what point does the hps increase of haste compare with the hps increase of FoL + higher mana regen compensating for the lower hpm. In reality I can see the haste increase being a worthwhile advantage as the hpm hit on FoL is harsh.

I imagine too that the degree to which you might sacrifice spirit may depend on your trinket choice, as those who use Jar or Shard that lack INT may find pure haste to be more worthwhile (as they have traded some throughput for higher regen already).

Is anyone aware of confirmation that this was in fact added to walk in the light, as opposed to replacing its current value? I really hope so. It would be a shame to receive a flat 10% nerf to healing in exchange for something that we can already do - which is use WoG without a cooldown.


Also, in response to the regen / haste discussion on heroics. My guild is currently 5/13 on heroic 10 mans and the only thing I switch out regularly between normal modes & heroic modes (aside from glyphs) is an int trinket vs jar. My issue on most heroics has very little to do with healing throughput as long as mechanics are handled correctly by the raid, but rather, needing more regen to last the length of the fight (and also to bare through attempts with bad RNG and being unable to plea as often as I wish). My success in heroics thus far has been much more dependent on this, being deliberate with my glyphs, proper use of mana cooldowns, and using the right heals at the right times, than it has been dependent on heals just not being hard enough.

On normal modes, throughput isn't an issue so I favor the int trinket simply so that my mana efficient spells hit a little harder and, let's be honest, I don't have to think as much

So, in my opinion, if one is looking to gain a boost to regen in order to complete heroic fights then I think utilizing trinkets or piece of gear with more spirit on them would be a better way to go. I use the haste/crit relic because the spirit relic will only translate into a negligible amount of regen.

I have yet to find a realistic encounter where Spirit is not the top secondary stat. In fact, certain fight lengths and gear levels cause [Vicious Gladiator's Band of Dominance] to surpass all non Spirit/Haste 359 rings.

Also, at the prompting of another paladin who mentioned GoAK only working for 4/5 heals, I looked over my logs and can confirm this. The person, who I forgot (sorry), also claimed that the 'splash' effect actually happen 5/5 times, very odd if this is true as well.

Depending on HR usage on a given fight, it may be advisable to switch to more pure haste pieces (haste/x vs. spirit/x, where x is either crit or mast) like Relic of Norgannon to bump your haste rating high enough to gain an extra HR tick. I was using it for a bit to get 2166 haste (Lust + DF tick threshold) on certain fights, but it's very situational. Since then my haste has dropped and it's no longer possible to reach that number so I switched back to Eonar.

Other than this sort of trade, I don't think I'd ever switch relics just for a throughput/regen trade as it's such a minor difference (counting reforges, it'd be a ~40 haste/spirit trade) that. 40 Haste is going to be such a minor gain to your throughput it probably won't be noticeable (with the exception of what I stated above).

Maybe if they release another Dreamwalker-type encounter where mana is just plain not an issue.

Someone told me today that they had noticed (in logs) a difference in conviction up-time with 2pc bonus. Is this something we should consider?

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I got 2pc four days ago between BWD and BoT raids.

Conclave Pre 2pc - 243 crit-able casts - 369s - 69 Crits - 90.4% uptime - 6/38 HLs Crit (15.8%) - Possible Crits/15s (9.9) - 15.6% HL
Conclave Post 2pc - 179 crit-able casts - 318s - 69 Crits - 95.1% uptime - 9/30 HLs Crit (30%) - Possible Crits/15s (8.4) - 16.9% HL

Alakir Pre 2pc - 576 Crit-able casts - 511s - 139 Crits - 98.5% uptime - 14/29 HLs Crit (48.3%) - Possible Crits/15s (16.9) - 5% HL
Alakir Post 2pc - 482 Crit-able casts - 459s - 115 Crits - 95.9% uptime - 7/31 HLs Crit (22.6%) - Possble Crits/15s (15.8) - 6.4% HL

Ignoring the potentials for randomness, this is working as expected. Conviction uptime correlates well with potential crits per 15s, which is boosted by LoD in Alakir (as well as melee hits). Tiny HL usage negates any potential 2pc influence (5% of 6.4% being 0.3% increased total crits), but seems to be working well on conclave (5% of 16.9% being 0.8%). The alakir drop just seems be from a ridiculous streak of crits, potentially from Divine Favor (24% v 23.8% for total crit-rate on the alakirs) compared to the Conclaves (28.4% v 38.5%).

In all honesty, I hardly care about conviction uptime, as the only stat not increasing the uptime is Mastery. Spirit will theoretically increase it via either more total casts, or more FoL casts (when that gear level is reached). It appears that the Time between Crits was more beneficial on the first alakir, but that is just randomness unless you specifically try to use high crit abilities when conviction is close to falling off (LoD, HS, DF, and HL w/2pc).

Bah, I should have used your active time and not the fight length, but I am not going to bother changing it.

I've been gaining an additional 99 Intellect through Mixology. This is opposed to the 80 Intellect listed in the OP. Has anyone else seen these gains?

It provides an identical amount of spirit (on average) as the current bonus, provided that both Holy Radiance and Holy Shock are used on cooldown. However, that's not the case in practice, as Holy Shock is on cooldown more often than Holy Radiance is. We should see better uptime of this buff, which will translate into more overall spirit from the set bonus.