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Old 06/05/11, 8:16 PM   #736
Ronark
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Lightrender View Post
Also, crusader striking has a chance based on your weapon speed to proc seal of insight (Weapon Speed/4.0=%chance to proc SoI).
Both formulas are the same theoretically, but yes yours is the mathematically proper formula without taking into account Parry chance like neither of us did.

However, even when glyphed for using CS is always a mana drain, so it is pointless to add in SoI regen unless you add it in as a chance per CS attempt, or as an average mana per Holy Power cost when using CS. Where Holy Shock would be at 8 HP per minute at 8% base mana, CS would be at ((100-(8-x)-d)/100)*14 HP per minute at 10-((Weapon Speed/4.0)*4)% base mana, depending on how you factor in SoI procs. Maybe something similar to how you have melee with instant casts coded?

This also brings up another question, if the Seal of Insight proc chance uses a normalized weapon speed or actual weapon speed- I assume it is the former.

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Old 06/06/11, 9:51 AM   #737
Brokenone
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Terlig View Post
We are trying to kill Nef 10 Hero. Had anyone try to reforge to full mastery in order to help at crackles in P3? Mana doesn't seem to be a big issue to me.
What i mean is to overheal people just before next crackle to leave some 8-10k shields (18 sec is enough on 10man). With AW i can leave even larger shields, question is if it really helps or just usually shields are eaten before crackle happens?
We've only done Heroic Nef 10 one time, but I healed for all of our progression attempts on my Paladin. My experience was that there was plenty of time to top everyone off between crackles. I don't believe there is any real need to stack mastery. I'd rather have spirit/haste so that I can help more on the tanks in between topping the raid off and the next crackle.


e:
Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
Both formulas are the same theoretically, but yes yours is the mathematically proper formula without taking into account Parry chance like neither of us did.
Actually, unless you're attacking from the front of the boss you don't have to worry about being parried. Instead you have to worried about the boss dodging. This is a function of your expertise, which you probably have zero unless you have a weapon specialization.

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Old 06/06/11, 11:28 AM   #738
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Ronark View Post
This also brings up another question, if the Seal of Insight proc chance uses a normalized weapon speed or actual weapon speed- I assume it is the former.
SoI behaves exactly like SoL and SoW did in that it's 15PPM. Using a 4.0 weapon guarantees the seal will hit, while anything faster than that will be proportionately less. A 2.6 speed weapon for example will always have a 65% chance to proc SoI per swing.

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Old 06/06/11, 1:49 PM   #739
Nimiks
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Dalaran (EU)
About 10 man heroic nefarian, I don't see the point in reforging full mastery; the only way a people could die in p3 (except tanks) is if it's not topped when the crackle happens, wich would be a big healing failure.
There was a bug on our first kills that caused peoples who ended their mind control right before the crackle to not have the nature resistance buff for a few seconds, letting them eat the full 130K+ electrocute. However it didn't happen on our last kills, so I believe it has been fixed.
You should better use your mana on the adds tank with your beacon on the boss tank or vice versa, and assist on the raid rather than trying to put little shields while doing a lot of useless overhealing.

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Old 06/07/11, 10:06 AM   #740
Fivedkpminus
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jubei'Thos
Well, There was one change that wasn't on the notes and thankfully it isn't a nerf. Mastery now stacks up to 1/3 of the player's health.

Mastery may be more valuable but now it basically cements our spot as a tank healer which is a pretty bad position considering we will never get a spammable healing move. It is good news that our mastery can no longer be absolute rubbish imo.

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Old 06/07/11, 12:22 PM   #741
Ronark
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Brokenuno View Post
Actually, unless you're attacking from the front of the boss you don't have to worry about being parried. Instead you have to worried about the boss dodging. This is a function of your expertise, which you probably have zero unless you have a weapon specialization.
There are a few encounters however where you will be attacking from the Front. Examples in current content include Argaloth, Al'Akir, Magmaw, and possibly Maloriak.

Originally Posted by Charybdis View Post
SoI behaves exactly like SoL and SoW did in that it's 15PPM. Using a 4.0 weapon guarantees the seal will hit, while anything faster than that will be proportionately less. A 2.6 speed weapon for example will always have a 65% chance to proc SoI per swing.
Given that it is still a PPM, then, you will end up seeing more SoI procs due to more weapon swings from the amount of Haste in combination with the added procs from using Crusader Strike.

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Old 06/07/11, 12:34 PM   #742
Daalpha
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Mug'thol (EU)
New PTR Build seems to have a silent change to our Mastery - it's stacking! yay!

Stacks exactly to 1/3 of our current Healthpool, so up to about 45k Shields now, about 50-55k in Firelands I guess. Completly independent of Mastery Value.

Unfortunatelly Glyph of Divinity seems to be fixed, providing only 10% max mana now.

Let's hope that will make it to life

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Old 06/07/11, 12:57 PM   #743
ben128905
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Fivedkpminus View Post
Well, There was one change that wasn't on the notes and thankfully it isn't a nerf. Mastery now stacks up to 1/3 of the player's health.

Mastery may be more valuable but now it basically cements our spot as a tank healer which is a pretty bad position considering we will never get a spammable healing move. It is good news that our mastery can no longer be absolute rubbish imo.
Played around with it for abit, capped at 1/3 like you said and any additional mastery does not increase it. Just attains the 1/3 health faster.
edit: Is it the casters health only and not the targets? Server just went down but that's what it seems like from me running around stormwind healing random people. Assumed it was unless it was just showing incorrect amount.

Last edited by ben128905 : 06/07/11 at 1:15 PM.

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Old 06/08/11, 1:21 PM   #744
Aaniscilla
Glass Joe
 
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Human Paladin
 
Sargeras
Originally Posted by ben128905 View Post
Played around with it for abit, capped at 1/3 like you said and any additional mastery does not increase it. Just attains the 1/3 health faster.
edit: Is it the casters health only and not the targets? Server just went down but that's what it seems like from me running around stormwind healing random people. Assumed it was unless it was just showing incorrect amount.
Definitely looks like it is based on caster's health. I tried it on a few people in SW and the cap is the same regardless of who I am casting it on.

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Old 06/08/11, 1:28 PM   #745
saillaw
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Shandris
Originally Posted by Aaniscilla View Post
Definitely looks like it is based on caster's health. I tried it on a few people in SW and the cap is the same regardless of who I am casting it on.
If that goes live it might really shake-up our priorities. We'd have incentives to stack stam and mastery. Healing in my Prot gear might not be that bad an idea (being sarcastic....mostly). I find it odd that they would base it on the healer’s HP rather than the target’s hp.

It would also incidentally make it easier to keep low-level toons alive in low-level power runs (putting a ~35k shield on a lvl 17 would make it much easier to keep them alive).

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Old 06/08/11, 1:49 PM   #746
saboya
Faceroller
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Firetree
I don't see how that makes mastery any more desirable than it is now, since we can just spam heal someone and stack to the same amount we would otherwise. We're better off focusing on crit. I think it's unlikely things will stay that way.

*edit* - Just to clarify, the stacking itself isn't the problem, but how mastery scales doesn't make sense. It should be shifted to something else, like the max value of our shield, or interact with some sort of diminished return on the shield stacking.

Last edited by saboya : 06/08/11 at 2:09 PM. Reason: elaborating some more

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Old 06/08/11, 4:59 PM   #747
Rathimis
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Cho'gall
Max value of the shield will only matter if there are 10 second pauses between damage. It's hardly important, other than just knowing what it is

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Old 06/08/11, 8:29 PM   #748
Daalpha
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Mug'thol (EU)
The cap definitely isn't an issue in raiding environment despite the amount you can pre stack before entering Combat on your tanks.

I don't think it will change our prioritizing in a way that Mastery outperforms Haste. Regarding Crit it sure has to be further evaluated - on current PTR Tests Illuminated Healing made up to about 10-13% of my overall Healing depending on HR Usage. This of course is a Boost, compared to the about 8-9% on life it currently does, that is not only caused by the change to Mastery Rating Scale.

However, since Mastery also benefits from crit I really have doubts that it will outperform it, as both our Beacon Heal, as well as our HR, so about 30% of overall Heal, don't benefit from it. This however sure needs further mathematical evaluation.

Last edited by Daalpha : 06/08/11 at 8:44 PM.

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Old 06/09/11, 5:39 AM   #749
Fivedkpminus
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jubei'Thos
Oh, When i'm talking about stacking the shield, I'm talking about it being partially absorbed then heal the target again to refresh that shield to keep it going.

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Old 06/09/11, 10:57 AM   #750
Mattsvaliant-v2
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by saboya View Post
I don't see how that makes mastery any more desirable than it is now, since we can just spam heal someone and stack to the same amount we would otherwise. We're better off focusing on crit. I think it's unlikely things will stay that way.

*edit* - Just to clarify, the stacking itself isn't the problem, but how mastery scales doesn't make sense. It should be shifted to something else, like the max value of our shield, or interact with some sort of diminished return on the shield stacking.
On live, I have about 130k HP fully raid buffed, and I also have 103 Mastery rating (.57). My most recent WoL shows my average DL hitting for about 24k.

12.85% of 24k = 3084
33% of 130k = 42,900
42,900 / 2056 = 14 Divine Lights to reach the max

My theory would be that mastery might be useful up to a certain point, where the goal would be to get the number of DLs to reach the max within reason. With haste and the boss swingtimer, you *might* be able to land 2 DLs on a target before each swing, which would then eat the full shield, and you would have to start over.

So even with the cap, if this proves to be the buff our mastery needed, mastery would still be a desirable stat up to the point where 2 DLs = cap, which would be quite unreasonable to hit.

Edit: Fixed some numbers.

Last edited by Mattsvaliant-v2 : 06/10/11 at 11:56 PM.

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