[Holy]Cataclysm Holy Compendium (4.0.6) - Page 77

rinleezwins · 11/01/11, 12:04 AM

Holy Radiance now costs 35% of base mana, up from 30%.

shaenoide · 11/01/11, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by rinleezwins

Holy Radiance now costs 35% of base mana, up from 30%.

we can suspect a nerf like this will come. We'll see. Spirit will be a cut above other stats.

rinleezwins · 11/01/11, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by shaenoide

we can suspect a nerf like this will come. We'll see. Spirit will be a cut above other stats.

It did come. And yes, I doubt anyone will wear plates without spirit anymore.

shaenoide · 11/01/11, 2:23 PM

***reworking on math and displaying of my post***

gruik · 11/02/11, 9:17 AM

I'm not sure you take the 12% base aborb shield into account (with 0 mastery rating).
1500 mastery will add 8.36 mastery which is 12.54% additionnal absorbing shield that means your illuminated healing will absorb 24.54% of your healing.
I'm not sure your numbers are accurate.

thatbox · 11/03/11, 7:19 PM

Does Holy Radiance on PTR proc PotI?

Desofire · 11/04/11, 8:36 AM

Hi

Any news on this plz?

"Weapon Enchants
[Enchant Weapon - Heartsong] 20s ICD, 25% proc chance*
[Enchant Weapon - Power Torrent] 45s ICD, 30-35% proc chance*
*Confirmation needed"

rinleezwins · 11/04/11, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by Desofire

Hi

Any news on this plz?

"Weapon Enchants
[Enchant Weapon - Heartsong] 20s ICD, 25% proc chance*
[Enchant Weapon - Power Torrent] 45s ICD, 30-35% proc chance*
*Confirmation needed"

According to the logs, on fights with around 100% activity, the uptime of Power Torrent for me is around 25%, so the proc chance and ICD considering 12sec duration seems to be very accurate. No idea about Heartsong however, as nobody uses that one anymore.

Rrui · 11/05/11, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by rinleezwins

No idea about Heartsong however, as nobody uses that one anymore.

Heartsong is currently used by quite a large amount of players and is regarded far superior to Power Torrent.

Originally Posted by Desofire

Hi

Any news on this plz?

"Weapon Enchants
[Enchant Weapon - Heartsong] 20s ICD, 25% proc chance*
[Enchant Weapon - Power Torrent] 45s ICD, 30-35% proc chance*
*Confirmation needed"

From our last Baleroc (heroic) kill which lasted 5 minutes (a bit slow but we had some alts in the raid), I had 99.7% activity and Heartsong was up for 58.4% of the time.

Ellowryn006 · 11/07/11, 9:59 PM

While i cant comment on the number of people using heartsong vs power torrent, heartsong being superior is going too far. Back in 4.0/4.1 someone on the resto shammy thread mathed out the 2 enchants and found power torrent came out ahead. this is mainly due to the fact that assuming one has all availible raid buffs, replenishment/kings/Arcane brilliance/and such, the mana regen is higher than heartsong. Add to that PT also gives a boost to spellpower thereby increasing the amount healed it beat heartsong especially on healer classes like pallies and priests that have a regen cooldown based on maximum mana.
However, with the new changes to seal of light and the 60ish% uptime heartsong may now be almost equal in terms of mana regen. Plus with the higher gear levels now going into 4.3 the benefits of either enchant is no longer what it was, useful yes but no longer as important.
To summerize, get the enchant you like and feel more comfortable playing with.

Shakaros · 11/08/11, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ellowryn006

While i cant comment on the number of people using heartsong vs power torrent, heartsong being superior is going too far. Back in 4.0/4.1 someone on the resto shammy thread mathed out the 2 enchants and found power torrent came out ahead. this is mainly due to the fact that assuming one has all availible raid buffs, replenishment/kings/Arcane brilliance/and such, the mana regen is higher than heartsong. Add to that PT also gives a boost to spellpower thereby increasing the amount healed it beat heartsong especially on healer classes like pallies and priests that have a regen cooldown based on maximum mana.
However, with the new changes to seal of light and the 60ish% uptime heartsong may now be almost equal in terms of mana regen. Plus with the higher gear levels now going into 4.3 the benefits of either enchant is no longer what it was, useful yes but no longer as important.
To summerize, get the enchant you like and feel more comfortable playing with.

Incorrect. Heartsong provides more regen to paladins; shamans preferred heartsong due to manatide and even when divine plea is used with power torrent, heartsong provides more regen. Go back through this thread and check the math done on the subject. Its also fairly fast to do yourself.

Shockadin · 11/08/11, 10:45 AM

From a regen perspective, PT is only better when you sync the proc with divine plea every time, which is simply not possible every time DP is off CD. And if you delay DP to sync it with a PT-Proc, you'll lose regen. So only under perfect circumstances PT beats Heartsong from a regen point of view.
And don't forget the changes to spirit regen in 4.3, where heartsong then will beat PT even under perfect circumstances.

Plus, you can't rely on the proc, it can come to a situation not needed, so the benefit from the extra spellpower can just be wasted, where the extra regen from heartsong will always be a benefit as long as you don't sit on 100% mana, something, which should simply not happen.

Daalpha · 11/08/11, 4:12 PM

My calculations using 7400 Int and 3150 Spirit, which seems quite reasonable at the beginning of the content using a 2nd Int Trinket as Shard is nerfed.

Basically we trade off about 70 Spirit vs. 150 Spellpower and 38 Crit if you average out everything.

Heartsong vs. Power Torrent (Holy Paladin 4.3)
------------------------------------------
Base Values:     Int: 7400 | Spirit:  3150
Uptimes:     PT(500I): 25% | HS(200S): 60%
------------------------------------------
Gains w. Heartsong:        AVG Spirit(120)
   Regen from Base Stats:       3625.6 MP5
   additional Regen:          +   138 MP5
                                ----------
                                3763.7 MP5
Gains w. Power Torrent:     AVG Int(137.8)
   Regen from Base Stats:       3625.6 MP5
   additional Regen:          +   33.6 MP5
   reg from Replenishment:    +   10.3 MP5
                                ----------
                                3669.6 MP5
------------------------------------------
Reliable Regen Summary:
  Heartsong:                      138 MP5
  Power Torrent:               -  43.9 MP5
                                ----------
  Heartsong advantage:            94.2 MP5
------------------------------------------
PT Regen benefits from Divine Plea:
   Max: (PT during every DP)
        Addition Max-Mana:         8268.75M
        (*) 12% Divine Plea:       992.25M
        (**)18% Divine Plea:       1488.375M
                                ----------
        (*) MP5(Used on CD):         41.3M
        (**)MP5(Used on CD):         62M
   AVG:
        Addition Max-Mana:         2067.1875M
        (*) 12% Divine Plea:       248.0625M
        (**)18% Divine Plea:       372.0938M
                                ----------
        (*) MP5(Used on CD):         10.3M
        (**)MP5(Used on CD):         15.5M
------------------------------------------
PT Regen benefits from Arcane Torrent:
   Max: (PT during every AT)
        Addition Max-Mana:         8268.75M
        6% Arcane Torrent:         496.125M
                                ----------
        MP5(Used on CD):           20.7M
   AVG:
        Addition Max-Mana:         2067.1875M
        6% Arcane Torrent:         124.0313M
                                ----------
        MP5(Used on CD):           5.17M
------------------------------------------
Summary (Using AVG Values):
You will want to try synchronizing DP with
 PT Uptime, but it is very unlikely that
  you will be able to use DP on CD then.
   Thus the AVG Values might be a good
             approximation
Heartsong                          138MP5
Power Torrent                    - 43.9MP5
DP(18%)                          - 15.5MP5
(AT                              - 5.17MP5)
                                ----------
                                   78.7MP5
                                  (73.5MP5)
78.7 MP5 is worth:                68.4 Spi
AVG of 137.8125 Int is worth:
                                   152 SPw
                                  37.9 Cri

Matlab Script if you wanna play around with the numbers

← Click Here

baseint = 7400;
basespirit = 3150;

ptuptime = 0.25;
hsuptime = 0.60;

spiritcoeff = 0.0083625 * 1.6;

basemp5 = 0.0025 + (basespirit .* sqrt(baseint) .* spiritcoeff);

hsavgspirit = 200*hsuptime;
hsmp5add = (hsavgspirit .* sqrt(baseint) .* spiritcoeff);
hsmp5 = basemp5 + hsmp5add;

ptavgint = 500 * 1.1025 * ptuptime;
ptmp5 = 0.0025 + (basespirit .* sqrt(baseint + ptavgint) .* spiritcoeff);
ptmp5add = ptmp5 - basemp5;
ptrepmp5 = ptavgint * 15 * 0.005;
ptmp5gain = ptmp5add + ptrepmp5;
ptmp5all = ptmp5 + ptrepmp5;

ptaddmana = 500*16.5375;
ptaddmanaavg = ptavgint * 15;
ptplea12 = ptaddmana * 0.12;
ptplea18 = ptaddmana * 0.18;
pttorrent = ptaddmana * 0.06;
pttorrentavg = ptaddmanaavg * 0.06;
ptplea12avg = ptaddmanaavg * 0.12;
ptplea18avg = ptaddmanaavg * 0.18;

hsadv = hsmp5add-ptmp5gain-ptplea18avg/24;
hsadvt = hsadv-pttorrentavg/24;
hsadvspirit = hsadv ./ (sqrt(baseint)*spiritcoeff);

disp('Heartsong vs. Power Torrent (Holy Paladin)');
disp('------------------------------------------');

outString = ['Base Values: ', 'Int: ', num2str(baseint), ' | Spirit: ', num2str(basespirit)];
disp(outString);

outString = ['Uptimes: ', 'PT(500I): ', num2str(ptuptime*100), '% | HS(200S): ', num2str(hsuptime*100), '%'];
disp(outString);

disp('------------------------------------------');
disp(['Gains w. Heartsong: AVG Spirit(', num2str(hsavgspirit),')']);
outString = [' Regen from Base Stats: ', num2str(basemp5,5), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
outString = [' additional Regen: + ', num2str(hsmp5add,3), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
disp(' ----------');
outString = [' ', num2str(hsmp5,5), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
disp('');
disp(['Gains w. Power Torrent: AVG Int(', num2str(ptavgint,4),')']);
outString = [' Regen from Base Stats: ', num2str(basemp5,5), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
outString = [' additional Regen: + ', num2str(ptmp5add,3), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
outString = [' reg from Replenishment: + ', num2str(ptrepmp5,3), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
disp(' ----------');
outString = [' ', num2str(ptmp5all,5), ' MP5'];
disp(outString);
disp('------------------------------------------');
disp('Reliable Regen Summary:');
disp([' Heartsong: ', num2str(hsmp5add,3), ' MP5']);
disp([' Power Torrent: - ', num2str(ptmp5gain,3), ' MP5']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' Heartsong advantage: ', num2str(hsmp5add - ptmp5gain, 3), ' MP5']);
disp('------------------------------------------');
disp('PT Regen benefits from Divine Plea:');
disp(' Max: (PT during every DP)');
disp([' Addition Max-Mana: ', num2str(ptaddmana), 'M']);
disp([' (*) 12% Divine Plea: ', num2str(ptplea12), 'M']);
disp([' (**)18% Divine Plea: ', num2str(ptplea18), 'M']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' (*) MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(ptplea12 /24,3), 'M']);
disp([' (**)MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(ptplea18 /24,3), 'M']);
disp(' AVG:');
disp([' Addition Max-Mana: ', num2str(ptaddmanaavg), 'M']);
disp([' (*) 12% Divine Plea: ', num2str(ptplea12avg), 'M']);
disp([' (**)18% Divine Plea: ', num2str(ptplea18avg), 'M']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' (*) MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(ptplea12avg /24,3), 'M']);
disp([' (**)MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(ptplea18avg /24,3), 'M']);
disp('------------------------------------------');
disp('PT Regen benefits from Arcane Torrent:');
disp(' Max: (PT during every AT)');
disp([' Addition Max-Mana: ', num2str(ptaddmana), 'M']);
disp([' 6% Arcane Torrent: ', num2str(pttorrent), 'M']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(pttorrent /24,3), 'M']);
disp(' AVG:');
disp([' Addition Max-Mana: ', num2str(ptaddmanaavg), 'M']);
disp([' 6% Arcane Torrent: ', num2str(pttorrentavg), 'M']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' MP5(Used on CD): ', num2str(pttorrentavg /24,3), 'M']);
disp('------------------------------------------');
disp('Summary (Using AVG Values):');
disp('You will want to try synchronizing DP with');
disp(' PT Uptime, but it is very unlikely that');
disp(' you will be able to use DP on CD then.');
disp(' Thus the AVG Values might be a good');
disp(' approximation');
disp('');
disp(['Heartsong ', num2str(hsmp5add,3), 'MP5']);
disp(['Power Torrent - ', num2str(ptmp5gain,3), 'MP5']);
disp(['DP(18%) - ', num2str(ptplea18avg/24,3), 'MP5']);
disp(['(AT - ', num2str(pttorrentavg/24,3), 'MP5)']);
disp(' ----------');
disp([' ', num2str(hsadv,3), 'MP5']);
disp([' (', num2str(hsadvt,3), 'MP5)']);
disp('');
disp([num2str(hsadv,3), ' MP5 is worth: ', num2str(hsadvspirit,3), ' Spi']);
disp(['AVG of ', num2str(ptavgint), ' Int is worth:']);
disp([' ', num2str(ptavgint*1.1,3), ' SPw']);
disp([' ', num2str(ptavgint*0.2753,3), ' Cri']);

talchas · 11/08/11, 8:03 PM

Technically, averaging PT int and then calculating mp5 is wrong - avg(sqrt(int+ptint)) is less than sqrt(int+avg(ptint)), but the effect is miniscule.

Daalpha · 11/08/11, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by talchas

Technically, averaging PT int and then calculating mp5 is wrong - avg(sqrt(int+ptint)) is less than sqrt(int+avg(ptint)), but the effect is miniscule.

You're right. In the example above the mistake is 0.5 mp5 in favor of pt, maybe ill find the time to correct the script