Yes, the hot is reduced beyond 6 targets. The initial heal and hot seem equally reduced.
You can use the query browser and look up HR for individual players. In addition if the hot were not reduced in that way, your hot healing would surpass your initial heal by a lot. But this isn't the case in any log I've seen.

I'm not sure how this will play out with haste this and mastery that.

From my own ptr testing I think I'm going to value crit well above mastery simply because HR is just used so much, and in a 25 man setting those hot ticks are so small there can't be much overheal involved.

From purely a raid healing perspective anyway, I'm surprised there hasn't been much talk about crit.

Has anyone yet done any math on whether a post patch glyphed light of Dawn(hitting all 4 targets and including beacon of light healing) compares in numbers to a 3 holy power wog (Inc beacon) ? Just curious for the ramifications with ten man raiding as the 5 man Lod wasn't as useful there and 6 man probably won't be either.

As I'm sure you have noticed, this thread is a little out of date. If you are interested in composing an updated Holy Paladin guide, please send me a PM for more details.

LoD with glyph hitting 4 targets is essentially the same as hitting 5 targets without the glyph. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to apply the old logic of comparing LoD and WoG (both of which transfer to BoL, by the way).

So, after 4.3 I guess Mastery&Crit build won't be so good, since now we need to care about Spirit too.
Or maybe working on a "fixed" value for Spirit can do the job, can someone confirm if that will work for a Mastery&Crit build? Otherwise I'm changing back to full Haste.

If you want to change back to full haste you will need a lot more spirit ...just saying.


I can't even think of a reason that makes you want to go mastery crit. Even if you want to go mastery you will need a minimum haste.

I would suggest that haste drops below mastery after the 4th tick in terms of aoe healing.

If I am reading the spreadsheet correctly that was posted by EgaL on page 47, that Haste breakpoint, with 3/3 in Speed of Light and the 9% Haste from Judgements of the Pure (our "normal" state of healing), then you only need 496 Haste rating in order to achieve the 4th tick of Holy Radiance, correct? And the 5th tick is a fairly unobtainable 4,308 Haste rating.

So, if true, then would not a heavy Mastery build be more beneficial than stacking Haste? I understand that you don't want to actually drop to 500 Haste because your casts would feel so slow it would be unbearable but I dropped my Holy Paldin from the old 1861 Haste breakpoint to 1400 and saw my HL/DL/HR cast time increase from 1.9 sec up to 2.0 sec which felt very minimal.

Adding that 450ish rating to Mastery seemed to make that pop up a few percentages on my last run.

Just wondering. The Haste vs Mastery discussion seems sort of moot to me.

Bloodlights

After playing around with this spreadsheet some more (with the appropriate stats and HR hot corrected to not benefit from mastery), I've come to the conclusion that the effect of crit and mastery per rating point is practically the same for HPS and total healing. No doubt because of the higher benefit of 1.5% per 180 rating of mastery vs 1% per 180 rating of crit.

This means that you should choose between crit and mastery based on whether you think the shield or beacon healing is more important. For the fights with a lot of DL usage I will be sticking with spirit/haste build for maximum flexibility and speed (to save as many people as possible).


Edit: What are the haste breakpoints with HR if you have the 100 % haste buff from the blue gem on Ultraxion? What about 30 % haste in the Madness encounter?

Ok, I want to respond to a bunch of things.

But first I want to make a general statement about haste/spirit vs. mastery. If we need additional Spirit to support the higher hastelevel, the spirit is basically dead weight. If we had not gone for haste based build, all spirit points we need additionally, could be spent to something else. Just some thought...

I do not doubt that your build did work for you in a way. This discussion isn't whenever only Haste or Mastery builds work, both do. In fact the numbers are rather close, but one of the two is slightly stronger. Depending on your progression you will have different needs and you may want to get everything out of your char you can get. However your char is only a tool, it depends on how you use it. This is the biggest factor of all.

Also you do not want to max all three stats with mastery, it depends a lot of you available gear but you just want to max mastery while keeping haste close to the lowest value(for additional ticks) you can get. That does not mean to drop to 496 haste...

On a practical note if you do only get mastery items, a haste build won't be optimal nor the other way a round.


Yes, you would need 4,308 haste rating but you do not factor the hastebuff in the raid. If you don't have that buff in your raid you should be a sad panda paladin.
(look here for the buffs available MMO-Champion RaidComp)
Thanks to that you only need 3493 rating which is possible to get with rather high gear.

In my opinion you really don't want to drop so low on haste the lowest number that I probably would ever consider would be 777 rating but as for me I do target whatever lowest haste peak is available at that time.( my luck with loot ...hahaha)


You can just enter the according values for the buff in the spreadsheet. I should do that later. ...lol

I do agree that haste is more flexible due to the shorter cast time.
I did fix mastery in the spreadsheet as well but as I expected mastery stays superior in terms of healing, how did you get haste to be better? It should not be possible. And no offense to the creator of the sheet, but some numbers are stupid and others just wrong.
Even so I can confirm my previous calculations but can't agree with yours. Do you mind telling me what data you used?

This part is just my personal opinion but even if you go for haste I think you should favor mastery. Thought I would find a crit build that works in any circumstance very nice. But in reality crit just seem to random and unreliable. And I don't want to bet on saving people, I like to always save them. (thought sometimes you will need that crit)

When it comes down to it; we really don't have much of a choice in gear at the heroic level so a lot of these discussions are primarily around what we're going to reforge that gear into. I'm fairly confident there is enough base haste on the gear that we'll have plenty of haste available to us; which will allow us to reforge to crit or mastery as you personally desire... or leave the haste around for fast casting AOE goodness. Everyone would want the four piece and everyone would (probably) want to use the higher ilevel gloves off of spine... which doesn't really leave us with much choice on what gear we're wearing from there on out.

What would be interesting to see is where the crit/mastery values line up after factoring in that we have to have X amount of haste just because it's on a lot of our heroic gear. My inkling is still going to be to reforge most of my haste to mastery once heroic gear starts dropping... but at that gear level a haste rating around 1700-1800 is probably going to end up being mandatory.

Additonally; a guildie pointed me towards this tool: Haste Breakpoint Tool

Which seemed to align with some of these spreadsheets I am seeing pretty consistently.