[Holy]Cataclysm Holy Compendium (4.0.6) - Page 83

Naeis · 12/10/11, 4:07 AM

Blizzard listed this in the hotfixes Tuesday under Paladin, and i was a little confused.

"# Paladin

* Divine Aegis, Ancestral Awakening, Ancestral Vigor, Holy Priest Mastery, Holy Paladin Mastery, and Living Seed now trigger properly based on pre-absorb healing, even if the triggering heal is fully absorbed."

Is this just a tweak/fix to the way these healing effects function on a target affected by Searing Plasma debuff on Spine of Deathwing? Are there other "healing absorption" effects in DS that are eluding me?

Starfire · 12/10/11, 4:22 AM

It's worth pointing out you aren't likely to get 50 Int gems very easily either, the demand is just to high and the supply too low. However, you won't necessarily lose the Int socket bonus if you just used orange gems as well. Granted, you would need to use 2x the amount of oranges, but their supply should be higher + socket bonus.

talchas · 12/10/11, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Naeis

Blizzard listed this in the hotfixes Tuesday under Paladin, and i was a little confused.

"# Paladin

* Divine Aegis, Ancestral Awakening, Ancestral Vigor, Holy Priest Mastery, Holy Paladin Mastery, and Living Seed now trigger properly based on pre-absorb healing, even if the triggering heal is fully absorbed."

Is this just a tweak/fix to the way these healing effects function on a target affected by Searing Plasma debuff on Spine of Deathwing? Are there other "healing absorption" effects in DS that are eluding me?

PVP is the other major place of course. However I suspect this is the main reason they fixed this.

thedudeabides · 12/12/11, 10:08 AM

I recently acquired (normal) [Seal of the Seven Signs] and replaced my (normal) [Jaws of Defeat] with it, purely for the static intellect boost. However, RNG being what it is, I cannot utilize the haste proc as a throughput boost very well. Instead, I am forced to use it as a pseudo-mana regen tool. The best I can come up with is:

Proc Scenario: Response
1) Heavy raid damage (very rare): Ideal situation, spam HR and DL as needed.
2) Moderate raid damage: Spam HL to maintain HPS at a lower mana cost.
3) Light/no raid damage: Melee for mana, only casting HS when it's up for HP, 2 set t12, conviction, and to maintain DMC:tsunami.

In essence, I'm attempting to use the haste proc as a mana regen/conservation phase instead of throughput, simply because it seldom procs during heavy incoming damage. Until (normal/LFR) [Heart of Unliving] drops, is this ideal? Or is it more beneficial to take a small intellect drop and use Jaws or t11 Int-spirit proc trinkets?

Echelion · 12/15/11, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by keeyla

The heal off [Maw of the Dragonlord] can crit as well which is very nice as it doesn't seem to have deminishing returns with increased targets. Quite a lot of encounters require the raid to be stacked so this hitting 24 people is a large % of healing done.

I did a LFR after getting the mace and it accounted for 6% of my healing on Zon'Ozz. That was just on the ranged group.

From our raid logs our druid heals are on average 5-6% from the proc of the Maw, and we're a 10 men guild. It's absolutely stomping the 4p T13 paladin bonus. Not that they compete, you can have both of them at the same time but a single weapon proc being that much better than a set bonus is quite absurd... I'm expecting a significant nerf to the weapon or a rebuff of set bonus (more like in the 10-12% healing increased from HR).
The latter more likely, IMHO.

Adornus · 12/15/11, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Echelion

From our raid logs our druid heals are on average 5-6% from the proc of the Maw, and we're a 10 men guild. It's absolutely stomping the 4p T13 paladin bonus. Not that they compete, you can have both of them at the same time but a single weapon proc being that much better than a set bonus is quite absurd... I'm expecting a significant nerf to the weapon or a rebuff of set bonus (more like in the 10-12% healing increased from HR).
The latter more likely, IMHO.

The maw has been insane for me. I use it with the trinks listed above. With 70% of my heals going to HR on Ultraxion, 6.5% of my heals were the maw and I hit 70k hps on LFR. This was with a significant amount of over healing as well. I'm guessing in actual 25m you could easily duplicate those numbers if you have someone else keeping eye on tanks.

If you can manage heroic jaws plus even LFR version of heart of unloving, if you hit blue, pop jaws, pop divine favor and spam holy radiance, you will stay pretty much at one spot for mana. Its ridiculous if you have hero, df, and blue combined. I was at 0.6 or 0.7 casts on spamming HR.

But, to get back to the point of the previous couple posts, as of right now, 2pc helm and legs from t12, 2pc shoulders and chest from t13, and gloves off spine is ideal for throughput and mana return. Put those two trinks and you'll get a very noticeable difference from if you had 4 pc t13 and only one or neither of the trinks.

Kaytemoss · 12/16/11, 9:13 AM

Hi,

I already posted on MMO about this but wanted your input.

I was wondering if any calculation had been made in terms of HPS and HPM regarding our AOE healing rotation with GoAK up?

I'm currently going with 5 times [HR / DL / HR --> LoD] with ToR specced and DL cast on beacon for some pretty big numbers but I'm not sure that's the best way to use it...

Most people on MMO (2 of them actually) suggest a WOG - HR - HR - CS - WOG - HR - HR - CS - WOG - HR - HR - CS - WOG - HR - HR - CS - WOG rotation.

Your thoughts / experience / calculations are more than welcome!

Beregond · 12/16/11, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Aanvil

Small quality of life change that most of you probably already noticed. Judgment no longer auto targets so the following macro will allow you to judge without changing your target.

/cast [harm][target=targettarget] Judgement

I would suggest another macro that behaves exactly like pre 4.3 Judgement:

/targetenemy [target=target,noharm]
/cast [target,harm] Judgement

With "targetenemy" it will target the first hostile in a ~30 degree cone in front of you, but if your current target is already an hostile it will simply cast on it.

Another option is to cast judgement always on something in front of you no matter what is your current target (this will avoid out of range problems if the old target is too far, but it can create issues if you don't want to hit certain targets, like crowd controlled mobs):

/targetenemy
/cast [target,harm] judgement

Recidivist · 12/16/11, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Echelion

From our raid logs our druid heals are on average 5-6% from the proc of the Maw, and we're a 10 men guild. It's absolutely stomping the 4p T13 paladin bonus. Not that they compete, you can have both of them at the same time but a single weapon proc being that much better than a set bonus is quite absurd... I'm expecting a significant nerf to the weapon or a rebuff of set bonus (more like in the 10-12% healing increased from HR).
The latter more likely, IMHO.

I highly doubt they will touch the weapon. It seems to be performing just how it should right now. If I recall correctly Trauma in ICC was somewhere between 5%-9% of druids healing on fights. I'm not sure why they nerfed the set bonus by 15% instead of maybe 10%, but I really don't see it even being worth using til heroic level gear and maybe on Ultraxion. Until then it seems the whole 2pc T12 2pc T13 with gloves off spine will be optimal.

Echelion · 12/17/11, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Adornus

The maw has been insane for me. I use it with the trinks listed above. With 70% of my heals going to HR on Ultraxion, 6.5% of my heals were the maw and I hit 70k hps on LFR. This was with a significant amount of over healing as well. I'm guessing in actual 25m you could easily duplicate those numbers if you have someone else keeping eye on tanks.

If you can manage heroic jaws plus even LFR version of heart of unloving, if you hit blue, pop jaws, pop divine favor and spam holy radiance, you will stay pretty much at one spot for mana. Its ridiculous if you have hero, df, and blue combined. I was at 0.6 or 0.7 casts on spamming HR.

But, to get back to the point of the previous couple posts, as of right now, 2pc helm and legs from t12, 2pc shoulders and chest from t13, and gloves off spine is ideal for throughput and mana return. Put those two trinks and you'll get a very noticeable difference from if you had 4 pc t13 and only one or neither of the trinks.

I was lucky to get both Jaws HC in our last run in FL and the Heart of Unliving in our first kill of Spine, and those two trinkets are simply amazing. Also (maybe someone already pointed this out) every person healed by the landing hit of HR procs a stack. It means that with a single cast of HR you can get the max number of stacks, great for phases with no healing (I know that HS should be cast on CD due to the 2pT12 bonus, hence the maintainance of the stacks, but it may happen that I'm not likely to cast it if the raid is at full health).

Also I guess the Maw proc doesn't trigger the BoL healing, right? That would be too much I suppose. Anyway, at least in Ultraxion normal, I see the tanks being healed enough simply by the healing received by HR + FoL BoL, maybe not at the beginning of the fight when HR is much less needed, but as soon as the crystals pop (especially the blue one) it's not an issue at all keeping them up thanks to the bonuses.

@Recidivist
Yes, I thought so too. In the end I think I'll go for 2 different holy equips (and maybe even specs), a haste one and a mastery one. We're just a druid and a pally as main healers with 2 off pallies, so they'll be mastery and haste to cover the third healing spot and I'll be both.

DiamondTear · 12/18/11, 5:36 AM

Originally Posted by Kaytemoss

I was wondering if any calculation had been made in terms of HPS and HPM regarding our AOE healing rotation with GoAK up?

I'm currently going with 5 times [HR / DL / HR --> LoD] with ToR specced and DL cast on beacon for some pretty big numbers but I'm not sure that's the best way to use it...

I don't see why you wouldn't cast DL on a raid member that is low. If both your DL and the copy-DL hit for the full amount, you'll do as much healing as you'd do with a 3p LoD. Plus any healing on beacon.

Orvar · 12/18/11, 8:34 PM

Originally Posted by DiamondTear

I don't see why you wouldn't cast DL on a raid member that is low. If both your DL and the copy-DL hit for the full amount, you'll do as much healing as you'd do with a 3p LoD. Plus any healing on beacon.

I assume the HR + WoG rotation is mostly good for maximizing aoe healing in specific situations where nobody is topped but there is no target low enough for a DL+GoAK snipe, like on Ultraxion(I have only done normal).

HR > HR > HR > WoG instead of HR > HR > CS > WOG would be more healing though if mana permits it :S

Naeis · 12/19/11, 10:26 AM

I would think that the talent Last Word would make a big impact in this decision of WoG vs DL, under the conditions of GoaK and heavy aoe dmg.

If the target is below 35% health, then WoG is running ~80-85% crit chance raid buffed, doubling the WoG and the ensuing GoaK heal, and then of course the splash heal from goak too. This is also far more mana efficient than weaving in DL between HR's.

Since we only have 5 heals from our golden buddy, I'd like to make the most of them with guaranteed crits from WoG, (target health permitting), over the lower crit chance of DL.

Using WoG also let's you cast your "goak heal" off beacon, (due to DL only generating Holy Power through ToR and the need to generate/burn HP as efficiently as possible)

So, HR - HR - HR(CS) - WoG seems the clear winner (while under GoAK and raid members are low enough)

The only argument to be had here is whether or not this kind of sniping is worthwhile, or should you be putting those extra heals into the tank. An HR - HR - DL (ToR) - LoD seems far less selfish or hps centric, but by WoGing a very low raid member we're ensuring they live (I usually choose a healer or top dps), most other healers' "smart heals" will then choose another target anyways, and we're getting fairly large beacon transfer and splash from the goak-wog. YMMV, as it largely depends who your raid has assigned to tank healing / tank support.

One last thing; I hadn't thought of this before, but could aiming the Wog-Goak on a raid member who has an increased healing effect, such as a BM hunter or a holy priest with Blessed Resilience, affect the GoaK heal and ensuing splash? I'll do some testing soon, though I am fairly certain they fixed +healing modifiers when transferring to Beacon, so this may fall under the same category.

Kaytemoss · 12/20/11, 7:46 AM

Originally Posted by Naeis

The only argument to be had here is whether or not this kind of sniping is worthwhile, or should you be putting those extra heals into the tank.

Indeed. I found this rotation (HR - HR - DL (ToR) - LoD) quite useful on heavy AOE + Tank damage phases like Red+Yellow+Black combo on Yorsahj HC or during Zonozz HC's black phase.
It basically allows you to completely secure your tank (Beacon transfers from LoD + DL with GoAK) while still using every single GCD to dish out some heavy AOE Healing.

Sorry if this has been answered already and I didnt get it, but is HR-HR-HR-WoG (under GoAK) pulling more HPS than HR spam then ? (while being obviously more efficient mana-wise...).

thatbox · 12/20/11, 8:44 PM

Originally Posted by Kaytemoss

Sorry if this has been answered already and I didnt get it, but is HR-HR-HR-WoG (under GoAK) pulling more HPS than HR spam then ? (while being obviously more efficient mana-wise...).

With GoAK, WoG would probably be an HPS increase over HR in most reasonable situations, although you'd probably still be better off using LoD if the single target healing weren't required.

For my paladin (6401 Int, a 2467 SP weapon, 2613 haste, 421 crit and 330 mastery), these are the base spell breakdowns after raidbuffs:

Source	DL	FoL	HL	HS	HR	WoG	LoD
Initial 38,649	26,580	14,487	12,769	85,878	22,877	59,177
Mastery	5,705	3,923	2,138	1,885	7,425	3,377	8,735
Beacon	19,324	13,290	14,487	6,385	0	11,438	29,589
PotI	3,641	3,641	3,641	3,641	0	3,641	3,641
Total	67,319	47,435	34,753	24,680	93,303	41,333	101,142
HPS	38,217	44,881	19,729	23,352	52,968	39,108	95,697
HPM	8.21	6.53	12.37	15.06	11.38