Which is wrong. First, you cannot multiply 21434 by 2.4 to get the total mana return as for 2 seconds out of 12 you won't have the 4pc bonus. The actual figure would be (21434*2)+(15439*0.2), which is 45956.

Second, you have forgotten to deduct the mana cost of the HR required to trigger the 4pc bonus from the total gain. This reduces your profit by 9368 mana.

Third, you cannot consider the entirety of the mana return to be profit as you would be getting at least 19423 (8093*2.4) mana from your gear even if you didn't use a HR and didn't have Core of Ripeness.

So the real net profit from syncing 4pc T11 and Core with Mana Tide Totem is 45956-9368-19423, or 17165 mana.

There is also a loss for not using Core on CD that will vary with fight length, though I can't find a scenario where using Core only with MTT isn't a profit over using Core on CD and syncing with MTT where possible.

It doesn't matter how long MTT lasts; we only get returns at 21434 for the 10 seconds of its duration in which the 4pc bonus is active. Core does still last longer than MTT, though, so the gross return would be (21434*2)+(15439*1.36). That comes out at 63865, subtracting (8093*3.36)+9368 to get a net profit of 36560.

Incidentally, I made an error in my own original calculations: the gross return would be (21434*2)+(15439*0.4)=49044, with a net return of 20253.

Have you considered to use Hurricane weapon enchant? I recorded a log yesterday during my HC run and it had 20% uptime. It should be higher for raids. It means like 90 additional haste all the time. Looks like Hurricane has no internal CD, i had 2 proc at the same time.

This is going to be a long post, so forgive me.

Stat Ratings
OK, while I like seeing math on the Spirit vs others stats, I won't be doing much more detailed math in that regards, simply because the picture is really too complicated to show in a simple one line formula that can be understood. Rawr, when it is updated, will be a far better method for you to peruse to your heart's desire. If Rawr.Healadin development doesn't pick up here pretty soon, I plan to offer my services to develop it. That being said there are some common pitfalls people keep falling into here. One of the most common is just basing things off a gut feeling, without even a hint of regard to the basic numbers behind it. I'm looking at you "STAT>STAT>STAT" lists! What good does STAT>STAT tell you when the reality is 1STAT>2STAT? If we just keep talking about subjective observations, this thread will go on forever.

Spirit & Haste
In regards to stats, the other pitfall is that many people are not taking into account that spirit operates at 50% effectiveness in combat, or that mastery does not effect 100% of our healing, or lesser things like Haste being an effective increase in Conviction up-time, or how it increases the HPS of Infusion of Light. There are also no real haste breakpoints of concern outside of Holy Radiance, as all the points of interest are just adding another spell in, even if it pushes your Holy Shock back. For example, without gear, HSx3, HLx8, LoDx1 is better then HSx3, HLx6, LoDx1. When you reach around 47% total haste, adding an extra HL before or after the LoD is extra output, even though you push back holy shock by 1.34s of the 1.7s it takes to cast. The same situation happens with DL at lower haste values due to the relative power of DL to LoD/HS.

There is a reason why I speak highly of Haste, and that is because there exists a point where Haste overtakes Spell power (and thus Int) for the best stat to increase HPS. This point depends on your current spell power, and which spell and/or rotation you are considering. For Holy Light, Divine Light, Holy Shock, and WoG this exists around 4800 spell power, depending on if you use the WoG/HS buffing talents/glyphs. FoL around 6500 spell power, and LoD around 10,400. Holy Radiance is the only spell we have where this point moves with haste as well, and as such is around 2800 spell power due to all the innate haste we get. These assume Spell power from Int, which comes at a rate of 1.212 spell power per stat cost, while pure, non-weapon, spell power is 1.283. Spell power levels will not get high enough to make Crit comparable to Int, as that requires over 28,000 sp. For Mastery purposes, I am assuming a value of roughly the same as crit from henceforth, as under typical conditions mastery will effect less then 50% of our healing.

I have been trying for the life of me to figure out how you came up with these. [Sqrt(Int) * 60.21] should be [0.05 + Sqrt(Int) * 30.105] as you forgot to reduce the Spirit formula in-combat. Haste and Crit are the only two stats in this list that effect Holy Radiance, a non-trivial portion of our healing. What is "Haste/5"? Is that Rating, full percent, decimal percent? and how can you add this benefit from IoL, with no cost at that, while 'taxing' haste for reducing cast times when the average effect on IoL is [2.5 - (1 * Crit%)] / (1 + Haste%) due to the GCD?
Mastery does not effect all the byproducts from casting a HL/DL, and thus does not operate at full effect here, as Beacon and PotI are byproducts of these spells and are thus a part of their 'benefit per cost' analysis.

I think you are going to have to elaborate and show some 'work' (as the ol' math teachers say) for us to take these formulas seriously. However, like I said, stat comparisons will never be simple enough to show in a formula that makes any kind of sense at a glance. HPD is less then 2 and only scales with SP and Mastery.

I should get around to a needed update for the OP later today, but things are still kind of busy around here so no promises.

As I understand it, certain thresholds of haste actually add ticks to HR. So it affects the overall throughput.

This is absolutely false, Holy Radiance gains tick with haste, increasing a lot it's throughput. The table with the scaling is in the OP.


Also it doesn't affect HR, and all summed up, almost 45-50% (at least watching my own logs) of our healing, in a raid setting, isn't affected by mastery. This should be the main reason why stacking mastery isn't really viable.

Sorry to veer off topic but I hope someone can answer a question that I've not seen in the thread yet.

If let's say you have two paladins healing the same target, would the absorption shield off mastery from one paladin be replaced by the other? I can't see a tank getting two buffs and so I'm wondering how the stat would work. I know only one priest at a time can have a shield on someone. Is it effectively the same?

I just received [World Keeper's Gauntlets] and I am trying to figure out what Engineering Tinker is best for the hand slot. We really only have three choices available to us, two throughput and one regen:

Hyperspeed Accelerators: 240 haste rating for 12 seconds, with a one minute CD, equates to 240 * (20% uptime) = 48 static haste rating if used on CD.

Synapse Springs: 480 intellect for 12 seconds, with a one minute CD, equates to 480 * (20% uptime) = 96 static intellect if used on CD.

Z50 Mana Gulper: Gives [Mythical Mana Potion] a 16% boost according to the tooltip so is 10000 (average mana gain per potion usage) * (16%) = 1600 extra mana per fight.

What I'm interested in knowing is whether or the community believes 96 intellect over the course of the fight (factoring in regen at various levels of spirit), would be more throughput AND regen, to beat out the extra 1600 mana per fight from the mana gulper, and whether or not the Hyperspeed Accelerators are even worth mentioning.

The mana gulper should be the weakest of the options you presented. 1600 additional mana over a regular Mythical Mana Potion use is negligible.

Between the other two, intellect is our best stat so 96 static intellect from the Synapse Springs would be far better than the 48 haste from the Hyperspeed Accelerators (assuming your math is correct). At best, you could look at the 240 haste being more of a cooldown you could blow when things get dicey and that line of thought is moving toward a situational scenario. You should have a more dependable and predictable benefit from the Synapse Springs.

Only problem I see here is that you're counting Mana Tide as 12 seconds, talents add 40% duration which works out to 16.8 sec. I was looking at these trinkets earlier today aswell though I wasn't sure how to convert spirit to pure mp5 which is why I didn't include Tyrande's Fav Doll - here's what I had.

I should point out that the raid im in uses back-to-back Mana Tides used 5 seconds apart and we'll assume max. stacks in the cases of DMC:T and JOAR.

Jar of Ancient Remedies = 767 Spirit(1 MT) or 1019 Spirit(with 2 MT) + 6420 Mana per 2 minutes.
Core of Ripeness = 942 Spirit
Darkmoon Card Tsunami = 595 Spirit(1 MT) or 790 Spirit(with 2 MT)
Figurine - Dream Owl = 697 Spirit

I think the point of his question was comparing the various int trinkets he listed; you can't forget that int increases the effectiveness of your spirit so the more int you have the more effective your regen and the regen from MTT.

To that extent; the trinkets with spirit effects will "scale" their mana regen as your gear improves. TFD will not. It's going to be a straight gain of mana regardless of how much int you have (basically how our judgement works).

Based on the math of the original question. TFD would probably be considered one of the better trinkets currently; as our gear improves the effectiveness of the other trinkets (especially if you are organizing MTT properly) will increase and thus will probably overtake TFD in terms of mana generation.