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Old 11/09/11, 2:55 PM   #46
Vman1987
Banned
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
From the Dev Q&A
Question:
"Is Word of Glory still going to be on a 20s CD for protection paladins? With the new active mitigation paradigm, it would seem "paladin-ish" to heal myself every time I can (or to choose a heal OR a holy shield)."

Answer:
"Word of Glory does not need a cooldown in 5.0. Prot can choose whether to use it for healing, Holy Shield for absorption, or Shield of the Righteous for block."

So there we have it, What we have all be waiting to hear. No more constant CTC and a flexible choice. Looks like in 5.0 we will be juggling mitigation/dps . I guess by doing all out for as much mitigation as possible and having low DPS wont matter as the threat change means aggro wont be an issue.

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Old 11/11/11, 11:00 AM   #47
TehFran
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Paladin
 
Страж Смерти (EU)
Originally Posted by Raistlin212 View Post
It's a very odd raid to include none of those 3 classes.
Range issues can occur. I found out that STR / AGI totem doesn't reach me on Sinestra (I tank on the left, the rest on the right), there's also a lot of running around far enough from melee in Rhyolith, different floors on Beth'tilac, ...

Just to be safe y'know. Once again: I raid in 10-man. In 25-man you should assume STR/AGI is always present.

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Old 11/13/11, 4:37 AM   #48
Fetzie
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Range issues can occur. I found out that STR / AGI totem doesn't reach me on Sinestra (I tank on the left, the rest on the right), there's also a lot of running around far enough from melee in Rhyolith, different floors on Beth'tilac, ...
Don't forget that Hunter pets (specifically cats) also buff STR/AGI with a 100 yd range.

Are there any opinions on the weapon that drops off Madness of Deathwing?

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Old 11/14/11, 11:06 AM   #49
DonTirri
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Alonsus (EU)
Since PTR refuses to run without crashing if I enable any addons, I figured I'd ask here.
Has anyone been able to test the 2pc and whether Glyph of Judgement is as good as it seems on paper there?
With no logging addon, I'm basically stuck with a gut feeling and some quickly flashing number which make it hard to work out in a realistic raid setting.

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Old 11/14/11, 5:57 PM   #50
Oicx
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Frostmane
Considering we currently use 1 or 2 threat glyphs, and since our threat generation has been increased, I can't see why we'd run with SoR or HotR/CS glyphs when we can glyph for another increase in survival.

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Old 11/17/11, 5:36 PM   #51
Iroared
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Monk
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
Is there any up to date info on how the two rotations (with and without inq) compare on single target? I tried both, but its really hard to tell the difference between the two, since inq rotation is very sensitive to missed CS's (when you put up inq, but fail to get off a SotR during it). I do like seing 90k+ crits though.
Why I care? First of all, i'm playing in 10man, plus we've had an issue with pushing ragnaros phase 3 with one meteor for a while, so we had to max out all we could (I tried standing in fire on purpose). Second, there are fights where it simply gets too boring if you stop worrying about your damage (cough baleroc).

I also find major glyph choice to be pretty tight on some encounters. E.g. on rag I'm forced to use divine protection, holy wrath (probably not needed anymore), focused shield for more DPS. This sometimes leaves me out of mana in below 20% phases, and doesn't leave space for utility like salvation (which would be very nice for kiting the boss when roots are wasted by mistake).

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Old 11/18/11, 7:23 PM   #52
gnumme
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Гордунни (EU)
Could u please give me an advice about new T13 tanking trinkets? Need to choose 2. I bet all the tanks would choose Indomitable Pride - Items - Sigrie? but what about the second? There is implemented very good trinket for all other tanking classes Soulshifter Vortex - Items - Sigrie, but prot paladins should be already block capped or nearly. So what should we choose? Get a trinket from old content, or use an awful trinket for dodge Resolve of Undying - Items - Sigrie, or change our gearing model to make the proc useful?

What will u choose?

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Old 11/18/11, 9:30 PM   #53
Raistlin212
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Zangarmarsh
Originally Posted by Iroared View Post
Is there any up to date info on how the two rotations (with and without inq) compare on single target?
Look up Theckd's work on maintankadin. He has more numbers than you can process in one setting regarding pretty much every permutation of rotation. These threads summarize the optimal rotation but if you want to know approximately how much dps you lose/gain with a combination of Inq he has tables upon tables of sim results.

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Old 11/22/11, 5:03 AM   #54
pindle
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Emeriss (EU)
Originally Posted by gnumme View Post
Could u please give me an advice about new T13 tanking trinkets? Need to choose 2. I bet all the tanks would choose Indomitable Pride - Items - Sigrie? but what about the second? There is implemented very good trinket for all other tanking classes Soulshifter Vortex - Items - Sigrie, but prot paladins should be already block capped or nearly. So what should we choose? Get a trinket from old content, or use an awful trinket for dodge Resolve of Undying - Items - Sigrie, or change our gearing model to make the proc useful?

What will u choose?
Why is Resolve of Undying awful? It doesn't have an active use, I'll give you that, but 990 static dodge is just incredible from a trinket alone. I haven't been on the PTR yet but if the current trend continues, in which stam trinkets are pretty worthless for paladins (and one of them even procs mastery), it's best combined with the 1650 VP trinket.

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Old 11/22/11, 9:57 AM   #55
Theck
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by pindle View Post
Why is Resolve of Undying awful? It doesn't have an active use, I'll give you that, but 990 static dodge is just incredible from a trinket alone. I haven't been on the PTR yet but if the current trend continues, in which stam trinkets are pretty worthless for paladins (and one of them even procs mastery), it's best combined with the 1650 VP trinket.
I've argued (and many tanks agree with me) that stamina is more valuable than dodge/parry once you've reached block cap, at least in heroic modes where bosses actually hurt. And that's with a 1.5:1 itemization; in other words, most tanks would take 30 stamina over 20 or fewer dodge rating (and in many cases, would take 30 stamina over 30 or 40 dodge rating).

990 dodge rating is definitely a lot, but I'm not convinced it's actually better than 775 stamina if you're already hitting block cap. I wouldn't call it an awful trinket, but unless total damage reduction suddenly becomes important in Dragon Soul (unlikely), it's not very compelling either. Especially since one of the alternatives is Fire of the Deep, a mastery trinket with a nice dodge on-use clicky.

If tank death in Dragon Soul is anything like what I've seen in Firelands (short bursts of 2-4 damage events in 3-5 seconds), then I think the added EH of the stamina trinket is still going to be superior, despite the crappy proc.

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Old 11/22/11, 6:03 PM   #56
pindle
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Emeriss (EU)
The real bursts in damage intake are usually caused by boss hits coinciding (in most cases) with elemental damage, in which case avoidance is useless, I agree stamina will always be valuable for that alone. Firelands was pretty elemental damage heavy compared to earlier instances this expansion, so I'm guessing it boils down to how melee and elemental damage ratio's will turn out to be in Dragon Soul.

That being said, it doesn't hurt to try pick up an extra trinket for swapping around depending on the bossfight. Also, I think the stamina trinkets seem pretty weak. The mastery proc of Vortex as said by gnumme is useless for any FL geared paladin, and I'm not really sold on the 54% last attack damage shield from Indomitable Pride. As you said those attacks that bring you to 50% will often be a succession of multiple hits, if a 20k hit brings you below 50% you'll get a 10k shield, 10k dmg absorbed per minute. If that would have been a generously large Ragnaros 100k hit, that would make a 54k shield. That starts looking like something but it's not reliable enough to really make or break that much. Personally, I'd much prefer an avoidance clicky, but I may be nitpicking.

Last edited by pindle : 11/22/11 at 6:21 PM.

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Old 11/23/11, 12:32 AM   #57
Meloree
Bored
 
Human Paladin
 
Garona
The first trinket slot might as well be reserved for Mirror. We may use the VP trinket (reforged to dodge or parry) for fights without a use for Mirror's clicky, but you probably want to build your progression gear around having Mirror. The heroic trinket from Deathwing isn't really worth considering, because it won't be progression gear, so you're really talking about 880 dodge rating (unreforgeable dodge rating), which is probably not going to be a good swap.

The second trinket is either stamina or DPS, depending on the needs of the encounter. We don't need another mastery trinket, and can't use it. Indomitable Pride is clearly the better of the two high ilvl stamina trinkets, so the only question remaining is whether the unreliably sized shield plus 125 stamina is worth more than the controllable heal from Scales of Life. The answer is: It depends on how effectively you use the heal from Scales of Life.

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Old 11/23/11, 10:05 AM   #58
pindle
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Emeriss (EU)
Originally Posted by Meloree View Post
The first trinket slot might as well be reserved for Mirror. We may use the VP trinket (reforged to dodge or parry) for fights without a use for Mirror's clicky, but you probably want to build your progression gear around having Mirror. The heroic trinket from Deathwing isn't really worth considering, because it won't be progression gear, so you're really talking about 880 dodge rating (unreforgeable dodge rating), which is probably not going to be a good swap.

The second trinket is either stamina or DPS, depending on the needs of the encounter. We don't need another mastery trinket, and can't use it. Indomitable Pride is clearly the better of the two high ilvl stamina trinkets, so the only question remaining is whether the unreliably sized shield plus 125 stamina is worth more than the controllable heal from Scales of Life. The answer is: It depends on how effectively you use the heal from Scales of Life.
Good one I'm still using it alot and 400 resistance for 10 sec on a 1 min CD is a major advantage in FL for alot of fights not sure why I didn't bring it up
I'm not sure how other paladins are doing it, I just bound Scales to WoG. Coming from a DK I tend to react pretty quickly to sub-35% drops and just push WoG, wether Scales is up or not. On the other hand, not having motivated raiders and forfeiting on Raggy hc, I haven't used it once since and just stuck to my mastery reforged to avoidance trinkets as I feel for current content 200k+ raidbuffed is more than plenty.

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Old 12/01/11, 12:13 PM   #59
Wrathblood
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Drenden
Anyone test the proc on Souldrinker yet?

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Old 12/01/11, 12:48 PM   #60
Asphyxialol
TEH DEEPZ!!!
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
DPS reports for DKs are reflecting a 15% proc rate. I haven't seen any logs which reflect how it interacts with prot abilities yet, however any melee ability that hits appears to proc it for DKs.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For us I guess that would be ~20 CS, ~22-24 melee, and possibly 7-8 Shields per minute in any given stand still fight (Ultraxion), or roughly 7.5 ppm (or for true ppm [60 / 2.6] * 0.15 = 3.46 ppm on melee - unbuffed, no talents, etc.). Figure 210,000 health * 1.5% = 3,150 damage * 2 * 1.06 = 6,678 healing. Or roughly 400 dps and 835 hps. Rough napkin math, obviously, and I'm not 100% positive it works with SotR, but it's probably safe to assume it would.

Last edited by Asphyxialol : 12/01/11 at 3:38 PM.

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