Mists of Pandaria: All Specs - Page 8

Eskostar · 03/23/12, 9:39 PM

Originally Posted by Thunderchylde

I'll be interested to see if the new Inquisition glyph maths out to be worth it - "Reduces the damage bonus of Inquisition by 10% but increases it's duration by 100%" - so it's 27% bonus and 1 min. at 3 HP.

Is it possible to have some confirmation on this? I assume that reducing it by 10% means it becomes a 20% boost and not a 27% boost, as that would make it probably too good.

Thunderchylde · 03/23/12, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Eskostar

Is it possible to have some confirmation on this? I assume that reducing it by 10% means it becomes a 20% boost and not a 27% boost, as that would make it probably too good.

I have confirmed that it is a drop of 10% of 30% so 3%.

The buff still says 30% but the skill tooltip says 27%.

NoGoal · 03/24/12, 7:47 AM

I wouldn't trust tooltips alone but 27% makes more sense to keep the glyph valuable.

Charybdis · 03/25/12, 6:54 PM

Originally Posted by NoGoal

I wouldn't trust tooltips alone but 27% makes more sense to keep the glyph valuable.

The possible issue here is 27% will pretty much guarantee it gets used. Having another TV during the duration should easily make up for the "10%" reduction.

Exemplar · 03/26/12, 9:05 AM

Once we have a more finalized design (expect damage values for attacks to fluctuate for a few months - HP usage/generation could always change, etc) and modeling tools are available, it'll be easy to determine the utility of the Inquisition Glyph.

If it remains a loss of 3% Holy Damage boost for double duration, it's extremely likely to be 'mandatory' as an overall DPS gain.

The espoused goal of the glyph is to make Inq easier to manage. I'd argue that having a max pool of 5 HP already does so. Cata design has you immediately dumping 3 HP so new generators aren't wasted, which can lead to either refreshing earlier than desired, only holding 1 or 2 HP when you want to refresh Inq, or letting Inq wear off for a second or two to generate a 3rd HP. With a pool of 5 you can choose to refresh Inq at 3, 4, or 5.

If you have 3 HP and aren't ready to refresh Inq you can either hold the HP while you generate up to 2 more. If you're still not ready, you can burn 3, generate 1 more and again be ready for a full duration Inq. Bottom line, with forethought you should always be able to perform a perfect 3 HP refresh of Inq with no more than 0-2 seconds remaining.

Personal opinion - glyph will be tweaked and this is not final design. Further personal opinion - they'll try to tweak to make it optional as they stated, but it really cannot be. Even if it's somehow perfectly balanced to be same DPS with or without... it's not optional. Either there are 3 Glyphs that flat increases DPS (optional glyph becomes DPS loss replacing 'better' Glyph), or there is not, which means the optional glyph makes juggling Inq and 20+ second duration CDs far simpler (always a gain).

I'm still of the opinion that Inq (Bonus % Holy Damage) is Ret's Hunger for Blood (Bonus % All Damage) (you know, that ability they decided wasn't fun to juggle, made passive, then removed entirely). 'But it's only Holy damage' you say? Yes, but autoattack procs a seal (Holy Damage), CS and TV trigger Mastery (Holy Damage), while Judgement, Exo, Holy Wrath, and Cons are directly Holy Damage. Therefore every attack we make inflicts Holy Damage. Thus every attack is impacted by Inquisition. You can math it out as a flat % bonus to all damage quite easily.

Thunderchylde · 03/26/12, 5:52 PM

Another interesting observation:

Divine Purpose seems to currently have a % chance to trigger per target hit by Divine Storm - I was farming cloth for my monk in Uldaman and training half the instance around and I noticed that, while I was still surrounded by mobs, I had a guaranteed DP proc from each Divine Storm but when it dropped down to 4-5 mobs it stopped happening every time.

♦ Rodimus Prime · 03/27/12, 3:27 AM

Originally Posted by Thunderchylde

Another interesting observation:

Divine Purpose seems to currently have a % chance to trigger per target hit by Divine Storm - I was farming cloth for my monk in Uldaman and training half the instance around and I noticed that, while I was still surrounded by mobs, I had a guaranteed DP proc from each Divine Storm but when it dropped down to 4-5 mobs it stopped happening every time.

I might be mistaken, but wasn't this also the case on live, where if you're popping DS/HW in a crowd, you're more likely to get a DP proc as it's calculated on each target it hits? Sure seemed that way during Spine progression... pop a DS or HW, instant DP proc.

Thunderchylde · 03/27/12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

I might be mistaken, but wasn't this also the case on live, where if you're popping DS/HW in a crowd, you're more likely to get a DP proc as it's calculated on each target it hits? Sure seemed that way during Spine progression... pop a DS or HW, instant DP proc.

It's possible.

The fact that it's changed from a list of spells to "Abilities that cost Holy Power have a 15%..." made me think that it would be the cast rather than the targets but if it's in live now then it's not surprising as from a code perspective they may have just changed the list of spells.

Ronark · 03/28/12, 4:54 PM

Has anyone tested how PoJ works with 5 Holy Power? I know the effect only stacks up to 3 Holy Power, but I want to know if the effect drops from 10%+30% (with 5 Holy power) to 10%+20% (with 5 minus 3 Holy Power). It could make for interesting situations in which movement is needed constantly, and the 2 additional Holy power could be "banked" for movement.

Thunderchylde · 03/28/12, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ronark

Has anyone tested how PoJ works with 5 Holy Power? I know the effect only stacks up to 3 Holy Power, but I want to know if the effect drops from 10%+30% (with 5 Holy power) to 10%+20% (with 5 minus 3 Holy Power). It could make for interesting situations in which movement is needed constantly, and the 2 additional Holy power could be "banked" for movement.

Servers are down so I can't test but I think that the PoJ talent isn't working properly atm. See Mists of Pandaria: All Specs for my initial testing.

But in theory you would stay at 130% going from 5-2 HP, it was only when I hit 0-1 that I dropped to 110%.

Ronark · 03/28/12, 10:26 PM

Interesting. Hopefully it will be come 0: 110%, 1:120%, 2:130%, 3-5:140%.

Tobrexa · 03/29/12, 7:51 AM

Pursuit of Justice at present:

It behaves differently if you stack or lose/spend HP:

You jump from 110% speed to 130% when passing from 2HP to 3HP, and the other way round, you jump from 130% to 110% from 2HP to 1HP.
Thus while stacking, at 2HP you are at 110% and while losing/spending, at 2 HP you are at 130%.

Edit: new build: Inq glyph now reduces Inq dmg buff to 20% (tooltip) instead of 27%.

Edit2: Judgement seems to not count anymore as physical ability: does not stack Censure (only melee abilities stack it presently), nor does it stack EotU. Could not verify if it is locked out when silenced.

Should someone be inclined to use Glyph of Seal of Blood: it prevents Censure from applying at all, so use with caution.

Seals behave weirdly with gcd: They are affected by it, but do not cause it: example: you could macro SoT into Crusader Strike and SoR into HotR before the strikes but not after them.

Ronark · 03/29/12, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Tobrexa

Edit2: Judgement seems to not count anymore as physical ability: does not stack Censure (only melee abilities stack it presently), nor does it stack EotU. Could not verify if it is locked out when silenced.

Theck mentioned this is the other thread [Prot 5.0 Beta] - Code Monkey :

Originally Posted by Ronark

They did, but Spirit > Hit worked for both Spell and Melee.

Honestly, I don't know why they did this change. It makes sense initially (Neither can be dodged/parried, both do Spell damage, and there are no more Spell Resists). However, I can see it acting strange for specific Procs (Gurthalak) as well as specific mechanics (Silence, Spell Lockout).

For all intent and purposes, they want AS (which is also a Spell now) and Judgement to "scale" with a tank's Expertise.

Ronark · 03/31/12, 2:50 AM

Here are my findings this evening (Disclaimer: I am currently limited to only Ret and Holy specs, see below).

--- GENERAL ---

Changing specs resets your talent points currently. Changing specs restores all mana, and subtracts off your Base mana, i.e. when a paladin that is wearing Holy gear in a Ret spec switches to Holy spec, they will have 80% mana.

You are unable to change your Specializations at the class trainer. Known bug.

Expertise is not increasing Spell Hit, only Hit increases Spell Hit.

--- CLASS ---

Base Mana is 20,000 at 85.

Seals act exactly like Aspects, and have a 1.5 sec cooldown, unaffected by haste. Unlimited duration, but they still have a mana cost.

WoG has a 1.5 sec cooldown, unaffected by haste.

Sanctity of Battle uses Spell haste, with the formula:
Cooldown = (base GCD or CD)/(1+spell_haste_effect[1]* .... *1+spell_haste_effect[n])/(1+spell_decimal_haste)

Guardian of Ancient Kings does not show up in the spell book, but is still available via a /cast macro.

Crusader Strike's additional damage does not scale with AP or SP. It does however scale with Global +damage modifiers (AW, 2p Ret T13, etc)

Judgement is a Magic attack. It does not proc seals or trinkets/procs that work off Melee hits. Judgement damage is universal and not affected by the current Seal (Judgement of Insight does the same damage as Judgement of Truth).

--- SPECS ---

- Ret -
Mana regenerates at a rate of 5% (1000) per 2 sec. Passive mana regeneration is from spirit is still in affect.

Thus, mana only becomes an issue with extensive FoL and Cleanse casts, as most abilities cost 1.2k mana or less. Exceptions are Blessings (4.4k) and HotR (2.3k)

Guardian of Ancient Kings has a range of 30 yards, and cannot be cast on a target farther than 30 yards. However, the Guardian appears at the location of the target. Ancient Fury still only scales with SP. At 12k AP and 6k Sp, the damage was 19k. At 615 AP and 8.1k SP, the damage was 22k.

Hammer of Wrath and Exorcism do not stack SoT, nor proc any seal. Both Hammer of Wrath and Exorcism give Holy Power, regardless if either attack lands.

The 2pc bonus on T13 increases CS damage by 15%, but still gives Judgement another HP (2 on cast). Ironically, this Holy Power has no delay...

"Zealotry" is the Crusader's Zeal buff, but does NOT increases damage by 18% when active with the 4pc T13.

Crusader's Zeal grants Melee Haste.

HotR procs seals on the initial target only. HoL from HotR procs on the initial target only.

Holy Light and Divine Light are still available at the trainer. Upon using duel spec, the abilities are lost.

Quick napkin math suggest a rotation of Inq > TV (At 5 Holy Power) > Exorcism > HoW > CS > Judgement > TV (At <5 Holy Power).

- Holy -
Holy Insight increases the mana pool to 100,000.

Light of Dawn is now a 30 yard AoE rather than a cone.

Denounce is only dealing 40% of the damage listed in the tooltip, The Denounce debuff is a magic effect.

Beacon of Light has no duration or mana cost.

Holy Radiance places Illuminated Healing on all targets, not just the initial. Currently, only 7% of the initial target's healing is transferring to the beacon target, and none form additional targets.

Daybreak heals all targets for 50% of the healing of Holy Shock on each affected target, including the original target.

--- TALENTS ---
Speed of Light is a Magic effect.

LAotL procs regardless of range. Does not proc from attacks that do not land.

PoJ is not a magic effect. Currently gives 110% at all times, and 130% when at 3+ HP. Also gives 130% at 2 HP but only when going from 5 HP to 2 HP.

Fist of Justice is a Magic effect.

Burden of Guilt is a permanent Debuff effect (like Forbearance, Hypothermia, etc)

Selfless Healer lasts for 15 seconds.

Eternal Flame is a magic effect. Scales with SP/Int and Haste. Individual ticks can Crit.

Sacred Shield is a magic effect.

Hand of Purity is a magic effect.

Unbreakable spirit affects the listed abilities when on cooldown-- i.e. if both Divine Shield and Lay on Hands are on cooldown, spending holy power causes both to reduce in cooldown length.

Clemency, when cast, does not remove any active Hand effects.

Holy Avenger is not a magical effect.

Sanctified Wrath is a visible buff, but is canceled when Avenging Wrath is.

Divine Purpose procs do work to reduce the cooldown on Unbreakable Spirit.

--- GLYPHS ---

Glyph of Avenging Wrath scales with global +healing modifiers-- On its own, it is actually 2.4% max HP every 4 sec.

Glyph of Divine Plea scales with Haste.

Glyph of Divine Storm scales with global +healing modifiers.

Glyph of Hammer of Wrath is not a magic effect.

Glyph of Immediate Truth is currently bugged, increasing Seal damage but not decreasing Censure damage.

Glyph of Word of Glory is a magic effect.

Contemplation lasts 8 seconds, but doesn't prevent actions. Actions currently do not cancel the effect.

Seal of Blood does not stack Censure.

Marsha · 03/31/12, 4:54 AM

Last week on the beta, my ESS was the same as it is on the live realms.

After the patch 2 days ago...I noticed this change.

Before this change my damage felt low. Leveling to 86 it felt right.