[Prot 5.0 Beta] - Code Monkey - Page 4

RebornTN · 05/07/12, 4:21 AM

Just for some thought after reading the WoG discussion with Selfless Healer on Beta currently stacking up to 3 times giving a cast free and mana free FoL every 3rd Judgment.

I haven't looked over the prot glyphs fully as it is my off spec but if there is one spot that can be pure choice (nothing else is too far superior) would using Glyph of Flash of Light - Paladin - Glyphs - Items - WOWDB while using a free FoL then WoG with 5 stacks of Bastion of Glory be something viable for survival?

Rough numbers from my Off spec Prot gear on beta @ 85:
Spell power: 4,422
Mastery: 29.1 (Increases effectiveness of BoG by 29.1%)
3hp WoG: 17.5k - 18k Heal
FoL: 17.5k - 18k Heal
3hp WoG w/ Glyph FoL: 19k - 20k Heal
3hp WoG w/ BoG 5 stack: 53.5k - 55k Heal
3hp WoG w/ BoG 5 stack and Glyph FoL: 58k - 62k Heal

At peak that is 90k healing in 2 GCDs every 6th HP dump. Without Glyph FoL or any FoL use it is still a 50k+ heal every 6th dump if used every time. It would seem that Blizzard wants Prot paladins to use WoG occasionally and if used every 6th HP dump, depending on the fight of course, is the glyph worth the small healing or just lack luster compared to other choices?

Do the other level 45 talents show more effective survival/mitigation for prot or does it just seem like too much work for what could be a small gain if there is even a free glyph slot without anything else being far superior?

Wrathblood · 05/07/12, 12:16 PM

That's an interesting idea. FoL plus the glyph is, at the cost of another GCD, giving you 25k healing which is a respectable amount and will increase the range of situations in which WoG is a viable alternative to SHoR.

Its hard to imagine the other level 45 talents providing much for Prot (unless Sacred Shield ends up scaling REALLY well), and the glyph strikes me as a situationally valuable sort of thing. For example, I suspect I'll be using Glyph of Consecration quite often (certainly during 5-mans). But if a raid boss doesn't have any adds to pick up (devaluing the Consecration glyph) and heavy tank damage either isn't a hallmark of the fight or comes at unpredictable intervals (increasing the value of WoG relative to ShoR), then I could certainly see swapping to the FoL glyph.

So, I can see situations in which that would be a good idea, but I don't know how often those situations will be turning up during the first tier of raiding.

NoGoal · 05/07/12, 3:08 PM

Keep in mind that selfless healer is about healing someone else and the glyph increase healing on that specific target.

Ronark · 05/07/12, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by NoGoal

Keep in mind that selfless healer is about healing someone else and the glyph increase healing on that specific target.

Selfless Healer reads as follows:

Selfless Healer Talent
Your successful Judgments reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35% per stack and improves its effectiveness by 35% per stack when used to heal others. Stacks up to 3 times.

Glyph of Flash of Light reads as follows:

Glyph of Flash of Light
When you Flash of Light a target, it increases your next heal done to that target within 7 sec by 10%.

Your initial FoL will have its cast time reduced by 105%, but since you are using it on yourself its output will be normal. Then Glyph of FoL will proc, and increase the healing of the Word of Glory (which is also increased from Bastion of Glory).

NoGoal · 05/07/12, 3:47 PM

I should have tested it before posting. Wording is a bit poor then, I assumed all 3 effects required another target.

Theck · 07/06/12, 4:03 PM

Just as an FYI, I have a series of posts on my blog outlining the new diminishing returns formulas in Mists. The first two posts provide the data and fitting methodology, while the final post talks about the implications for tanks. The short, short version is that we're going to value parry much more highly than dodge.

Avoidance Diminishing Returns in MoP – Part 1 | Sacred Duty
Avoidance Diminishing Returns in MoP – Part 2 | Sacred Duty
Avoidance Diminishing Returns in MoP – Part 3 | Sacred Duty

Slightly less short version: the equations are:

totalDodge = baseDodge + 1/(1/Cd + k/preDodge)

totalParry = baseParry + baseStr/Q + 1/(1/Cp + k/((Str-baseStr)/Q+preParry)

baseDodge and baseParry are as described (3.01 and 5.01, note that the naked character sheet value includes baseStr/Q)
baseStr is our base strength
preDodge and preParry are the pre-DR values due to dodge and parry rating, respectively, as read off of the tooltip
Q=952 is the strength-to-parry-pct conversion ratio
k=0.885
Cd=65.631440
Cp=235.5

In other words, k was lowered (from 0.956 in Cata), but otherwise the dodge equation is identical to the level 85 version. The parry equation uses the new value of k and has had the cap drastically increased. In addition, Strength is now giving "phantom" parry rather than giving parry rating, which is a reversion of the change that happened earlier in Cataclysm.

Barirn · 07/13/12, 6:03 PM

I have been playing around a little bit on beta, and here is the rotation I found works:

Single target: SoT, HotR-for debuff, CruS-for HP, Judgement-for HP, SotR-for Bastion of Glory stack, WoG-for heal and DPS increase if glyphed, AS-when off CD

Multi-target: SoR, Con-when off CD, HotR-for HP and debuff, Judgement-for HP, SotR-for BoG stack, WoG-for heal, AS-when off CD, HW-when off CD

Use small defensive CDs when they come off, big ones for big damage. Use either Judgement or AS to pull, you can use, dont use Reckoning only because they will aggro onto you, even if you get a miss.

ALWAYS have RF on.

Theck · 07/14/12, 10:21 PM

I'm not sure how you define "works," but the rotations you suggested will still have a bunch of empty GCDs. There's plenty of room for using Consecration and Holy Wrath in the single-target rotation, for example.

I also doubt that the WoG glyph is actually a DPS increase over simply using SotR. My rough calculations are coming out at ~40k sustained DPS using the best rotation (SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW). 9% of that is 3.6k DPS, or 21.6k damage over the 6-second duration. If my memory is correct, SotR will be doing nearly that much with no Vengeance, so while tanking SotR would probably be the better expenditure.

For the record, the rotation I've been assuming as "ideal" for tanking will be something like ^WB>^SS>SotR5>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW, which is basically the high-DPS rotation but with HotR and Sacred Shield prioritized for survival reasons. For AoE, it simply changes to ^SS>SotR5>HotR>J>AS>Cons>HW. Prioritizing AS and Cons above J may give you more DPS against large numbers of targets at the cost of survivability (SotR uptime).

Ronark · 07/15/12, 10:36 AM

Can anyone confirm that Bastion of Glory does not work with Eternal Flame, or if it does which parts scale (just the initial heal or also the HoT)?

Barirn · 07/15/12, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ronark

Can anyone confirm that Bastion of Glory does not work with Eternal Flame, or if it does which parts scale (just the initial heal or also the HoT)?

Blizz just posted today that that was not intended and that they are going to fix it.

Ronark · 07/15/12, 2:29 PM

I don't see a Blue post today regarding it. I know a few days ago they mentioned how EF was not consuming Bastion stacks, but that wasn't the question I had.

As far as tooltips go, Bastion does not state that it works at all with Eternal Flame.

Barirn · 07/15/12, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Theck

I also doubt that the WoG glyph is actually a DPS increase over simply using SotR. My rough calculations are coming out at ~40k sustained DPS using the best rotation (SotR>CS>J>AS>Cons>HW). 9% of that is 3.6k DPS, or 21.6k damage over the 6-second duration. If my memory is correct, SotR will be doing nearly that much with no Vengeance, so while tanking SotR would probably be the better expenditure.

I need to clarify here, I was only stating the glyph for those who went with it. Not sure what glyphs people are using, so that was just in case that was in someone's spots.

Also, on the topic of glyphs, what would people recommend?

jekoh · 07/16/12, 6:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ronark

I don't see a Blue post today regarding it. I know a few days ago they mentioned how EF was not consuming Bastion stacks, but that wasn't the question I had.
As far as tooltips go, Bastion does not state that it works at all with Eternal Flame.

From yesterday, EF doesn't consume bastion stacks and bastion scaled on the initial heal and on the hot also, you may also have crit on the hot. I was amazed to have a crit hot at 70k heal with an EF at 5 bastion stacks

aylen86 · 07/16/12, 7:01 PM

This is still a bug, confirmed by Ghostcrawler on 2012/07/14. Don't put your hope into it.
But it is most likely that Bastion of Glory scales with EF, because EF replaces WoG since the last beta build.

Is it intended for Eternal Flame not to consume Bastion of Glory because its not consuming it (while WoG still is)?

Unintended. Fixed for next build.

Source: Beta Class Balance Analysis - Forums - World of Warcraft

jekoh · 07/19/12, 5:17 PM

New armor formula lvl85+

DR = Armor / ( Armor + 4037.5*level - 317117.5 )