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08/24/12, 10:11 PM
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#256
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Bloodhoof
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Also confirmed DS. Having a tough time checking Inq, as PTR is really laggy for me.
Last edited by Zephur : 08/24/12 at 10:43 PM.
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08/24/12, 10:54 PM
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#257
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Don Flamenco
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From watching the GCD with OmniCC, it seems that DS, TV, Inq, and WoG are now affected by Sanctity of Battle. For Reference tests, I also compared each ability to Sacred Shield, which does not get the GCD benefit- The effect was noticable by both myself as a player and through OmniCC showing a 1.5 sec GCD instead of a 1.2/1.3 GCD with ~9.5% haste.
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08/24/12, 11:15 PM
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#258
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Piston Honda
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Implemented in Simc - 1k dps gain for SW at 90, 2k for HA, 4k for DP. SW > HA > DP still, but only 1k separations.
1k dps gain for DP/HA at 85, 750 dps gain for SW. All numbers are still well below live ret sim.
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08/24/12, 11:26 PM
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#259
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Balhale
Implemented in Simc - 1k dps gain for SW at 90, 2k for HA, 4k for DP. SW > HA > DP still, but only 1k separations.
1k dps gain for DP/HA at 85, 750 dps gain for SW. All numbers are still well below live ret sim.
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Could it be from the loss, or rather, our L90 DPS talents not being implemented/available at L85? Not saying it is at all practical to run a L85 sim with ES/LP, but would that bring the sim more in line with Live?
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08/25/12, 12:59 AM
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#260
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Ronark
Could it be from the loss, or rather, our L90 DPS talents not being implemented/available at L85? Not saying it is at all practical to run a L85 sim with ES/LP, but would that bring the sim more in line with Live?
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ES at 85, with 50% of the 90 base damage and the same coefficient would be roughly a 1.5k dps gain, which still leaves us 1k under live sim.
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08/25/12, 1:27 AM
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#261
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Area 52
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A bit of info from Beta Class Balance Analysis Pt. II - Forums - World of Warcraft concerning weapon enchants:
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Originally Posted by Blizz
River's Song: 2PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried.
Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land.
Colossus: 3PPM on melee attacks that land, or are dodged, or parried, with a 3-second cooldown.
Elemental Force: 5PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 0.1-second cooldown.
Jade Spirit: 10% chance on spell damage or healing, 50-second cooldown.
Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.
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08/25/12, 3:20 AM
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#262
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Piston Honda
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Also Crithto (spelling?) confirmed that Harsh Words WoG shouldn't trigger Glyph of Word of Glory.
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08/25/12, 5:16 AM
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#263
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Glass Joe
Human Paladin
Blade's Edge
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Originally Posted by Zephur
So, after going back and forth with some folks on MMO-C, I ran some tests on the PTR. Much to my surprise, I found that Sanctity of Battle was affecting the GCD of TV. I brought in a friend to test with Bloodlust, and without a doubt, the GCD was very close to 1 second.
Can anyone confirm/deny this? This would put the value of haste through the roof, and have a significant effect on our dps.
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Positive that TV GCD is being reduced by haste; reference to my post on Pg 11.
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08/27/12, 1:44 AM
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#264
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Arathor (EU)
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Might be silly question but , even if TV/DS GCD been affected by haste , why would it be benificial ? we can't use both spells but if we have the required HP's for them at anycase , we can not spam cast them . did i miss something here ?
Another question that is , i think they will be implementing the new glyphs on next reset . We are loosing GoSoT , does this mean we will have to reforge back from mastery/crit/haste into exp ?
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08/27/12, 4:22 AM
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#265
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Sen'jin
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Originally Posted by Cloudio
Might be silly question but , even if TV/DS GCD been affected by haste , why would it be benificial ? we can't use both spells but if we have the required HP's for them at anycase , we can not spam cast them . did i miss something here ?
Another question that is , i think they will be implementing the new glyphs on next reset . We are loosing GoSoT , does this mean we will have to reforge back from mastery/crit/haste into exp ?
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1) Having a lower GCD with haste means after you cast the TV/DS, you can get to casting a new HP generator sooner. With SoB including TV and DS, this makes essentially the entire rotation scale with haste.
2) The magic number for non-Draenei melee (and i guess also Ranged) hit is 769.
The magic number for non-Human/Dwarf expertise is also 769.
It's not a huge deal. You'll have to probably put some mastery (or whatever stat is decided to be the least necessary at 85) into expertise. Caps are more important.
Last edited by Phantoms : 08/27/12 at 4:28 AM.
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08/27/12, 6:59 AM
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#266
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Arathor (EU)
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Originally Posted by Phantoms
1) Having a lower GCD with haste means after you cast the TV/DS, you can get to casting a new HP generator sooner. With SoB including TV and DS, this makes essentially the entire rotation scale with haste.
2) The magic number for non-Draenei melee (and i guess also Ranged) hit is 769.
The magic number for non-Human/Dwarf expertise is also 769.
It's not a huge deal. You'll have to probably put some mastery (or whatever stat is decided to be the least necessary at 85) into expertise. Caps are more important.
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Yea i know that with more haste you get smaller gcd's which results faster rotations but i was talking about TV itself . Scaling TV GCD with haste doesn't mean anything really unless we are able to spam TV for a future hidden reason ( like a tier bonus maybe ? ) .
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08/27/12, 8:38 AM
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#267
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Piston Honda
Goblin Priest
Mannoroth (EU)
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Reducing your TV gcd will grant you a DPS increase in any case and has nothing to do with spamming TVs.
If you have a shorter GCD for any ability for that reason, you will save a fraction of a second everytime you press that ability. Say TV gets reduced by .1 second, after only 14 times using TV you already gained 1 whole GCD for another ability, resulting in 1 additionaly attack in the same timeframe before TV was affected by haste and therefore additionaly DPS.
Since nearly all of rets abilities are now affected by SoB, it effectively shortens the whole cycle for ret and allows for more even more styles through the gcd reduction than before and thus more DPS.
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There are only 10 types of people... those who understand binary and those who don't.
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08/27/12, 8:51 AM
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#268
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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Originally Posted by cky71321
Call me crazy, Exemplar, but are you changing the priority for when Holy Avenger is active? You'd think that HoW and Exo would get a greater benefit from the 30% increased damage.
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My spreadsheet cannot change priority on the fly (to the best of my knowledge, neither can Simcraft - though it has the capability to handle additional "If HA is active and HoW off CD" conditionals to the list, which my spreadsheet just doesn't have room to hold without being very user un-friendly).
At L85 in my gear, Exo does more damage than HoW. Stress: L85. The base on Exo is high enough that the slightly higher coefficient of HoW did not pull it ahead. Exo 6275 + .677AP vs HoW 1658 + (1.61/2)AP. 12.8% of your AP needs to be 4617. That means 36k AP. Not do-able at L85. Exo is better at L85. SW changes where HoW lives because the drastically reduced CD under AW.
Originally Posted by Cloudio
Yea i know that with more haste you get smaller gcd's which results faster rotations but i was talking about TV itself . Scaling TV GCD with haste doesn't mean anything really unless we are able to spam TV for a future hidden reason.
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GCD is not overall CD. It's how long you must wait after casting spell A before you are able to cast spell B. The faster the GCD on A, the more B you can cast during the fight.
Thus the shorter TV/Inq CD, the more CS, J, etc. End of the day you generate a handful more HP over a fight, which leads to a few more TV, too. Overall result, more total damage in same time = more DPS.
Re: Shorter Inq/WoG
Are we sure that's SoB and not simply spellhaste reduction being permitted? Just wanting to make sure we know which is occurring, as they do tend to be different.
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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08/27/12, 11:52 AM
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#269
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Glass Joe
Human Paladin
Lightning's Blade
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While Exo does beat HoW on it's own, let's take a quick look at something from Balhale's BiS profile currently on Simcraft. It shows 18,761 buffed AP in a raid. This gives us:
Exorcism: 6275 + .677 AP = 6275 + 12701 = 18976
Hammer of Wrath: 1658 + .805 AP = 1658 + 15102 = 16760
While Exo's winning here by about 2,3k, let's not forget about our dear friend, Hand of Light. With raid buffed Mastery at 42.63%, this results in the following Hand of Light damage:
16760 x 0.4263 x 1.3 (Inq) = 9288
This leaves us with 26,084 damage with one Hammer of Wrath to 18,976 with one Exorcism. So why is Exorcism ahead?
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08/27/12, 12:40 PM
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#270
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Piston Honda
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Ok, so comparing numbers to Exemplar's it seems that the sim is not using Hammer as often as it should be. During SW it should be using it every other GCD but isn't, sometimes using a CS or Judgement instead.
During HA you have what seems to be an unrealistic number of TV/Inqs. You use 191 HP generators. If we make the best case scenario assumption (unrealistically good here) that you have a 1.0 sec GCD during HA then you will get 9 generators off during HA. Times 4 for 4 HA uses gives 36 3 HP generators. 191-36+(36*3) = 263 Holy Power maximum generated. Your sim uses 70 TVs = 210 HP and 21 Inquisition to take up the other 263. So either you are using Inquisition half the time at 2 HP or you have something generating extra HP. With more realistic GCD for HA you get 8 off per HA for 32 3HP generators and 255 HP gain, leaving 45 HP for 21 Inq. Also 450 second fight / 21 Inq = 21.4 seconds per inquisition.
Finally, either you or I have severely wrong damage formulas. I'm using slightly better gear than you with similar ability usage numbers, but am getting dps results 10k+ below yours. I can rerun my sims with your gear and post the numbers if that would help.
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