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Old 08/28/12, 2:49 PM   #301
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Yes - Censure ticks faster with Haste. SimCraft is fine.

Voldemort - Spellhaste buff does not impact Sanctity of Battle - only melee Haste. Weapon Speed Haste buff only impacts weapon speed - i.e. autoattack. Neither buff alters our character's melee Haste. Presently the only things that do so are gear or gimmicks (Sinestra or Madness buffs).

Zephur has pointed out corrections for my spreadsheet. Looks like weapon base damage changes in 5.x and I had not accounted for such. This will be a huge increase. Looking far closer to 4.x values. That said...

Regarding 4.x vs 5.x damage:
Just because on paper (SimCraft or a Spreadsheet) for a stand-still Patchwerk-esque we get total DPS to be value A does not mean that players actually see this value.

Tool may say we can get A damage in 4.x, but people actually do around B damage.
5.x damage may say we would now do D damage. So we're dropping from A to D, on paper.
Playing in 5.x humans actually do around C damage.

A and D can be far apart (huge loss!), while B and C can be close together (little to nothing noticeable).

I have personally seen logs higher than what my Spreadsheet or SimCraft says 'is possible' - the player got a nice series from the RNG on procs/crits/etc, or other unusual situations. We've all seen logs far below possible (bad luck, bad day, high latency, bad player, etc). Just because a value is the averaged high-point doesn't mean it's precisely what will be hit unless you play long enough to average out, say something like a 30-hour straight fight playing properly the entire time.

Also of note - test dummies can provide bad results. There's been a lot of history of test dummies malfunctioning with some attacks. Some examples are abilities doing more/less damage than should, ignoring certain buff/debuffs applied, dummy not functioning as +3 levels, not calculating armour or armour reduction accurately for +3, and others which don't come to mind. It is possible that tests on dummies are producing incorrect information. It's also possible these tests are spot on and will reflect real boss fight, but it's important to realise there could be funny business.

Finally - something small could impact our calculated damage. If Blizzard has, for example, tweaked boss armour values or frequency/value of glancing autoattack reduction, then our tools would be generating numbers that do not reflect actual play.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 08/28/12, 2:54 PM   #302
Fordragon
Von Kaiser
 
Fordragon's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Stormrage (EU)
Originally Posted by Voldemort View Post
Can someone explain? On 90 lvl and haste forged gear I have 4.02 sec cd for Crusader Strike. But same cd I have with melee/spell haste buff. On 85 lvl - same. Both haste buf don't affect our CD's???
There is no melee haste buff.Its attack speed buff which doesnt affect SoB.

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Old 08/28/12, 4:37 PM   #303
Balhale
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Bladefist
As an example of issues with target dummies, the 90 ones on beta don't have the same armor as level 90 mobs.

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Old 08/28/12, 5:03 PM   #304
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Latest version: here.

Max DPS is around 43.5k. About 7.5% loss from theoretical 4.x maximum DPS. Over 40k which I suspect is a mental threshold many probably use.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 08/29/12, 3:44 AM   #305
Tyresious
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Blade's Edge
Very likely its a bug, and will get fixed soon, but GoAK is reseting its cooldown upon leaving combat in raid environments. This was happening to me during an ICC run, so i dont know if it behaves this way in DS/Cata raids. It does not work in PVP battlegrounds, or during duels.

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Old 08/29/12, 3:45 AM   #306
Balhale
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Bladefist
That is possibly intended - I know they had said something similar would happen for warlocks with their longer cds so that they are up for every pull.

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Old 08/29/12, 10:55 AM   #307
Cloudio
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Arathor (EU)
Seems on live server you can use both glyphs; harsh words and glyph of word of glory. They interact with each others so you can now cast wog on target and gain 3% damage inc buff per holy power for 6 seconds for a maximum of 3 hp's. Can we consider that in our rotation ? is it worth it ?

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Old 08/29/12, 12:04 PM   #308
Zephur
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bloodhoof
If that is indeed still happening (GoHW / GoWoG synergy), it's been confirmed as unintended by Blizzard, and will likely be fixed very soon.

Last edited by Zephur : 08/29/12 at 12:11 PM.

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Old 08/29/12, 12:06 PM   #309
Phantoms
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Sen'jin
The GoAK resetting on wipe thing is definitely intended. It was doing that during all beta testing, and although it wasn't mentioned in blizzard's post about warlock cd's resetting...I can tell you that this is definitely a thing.

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Old 08/29/12, 12:57 PM   #310
Grognard
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Sen'jin
Thought just occurred to me: Since we're actively seeking as much hastes as possible, would we be wanting to use Hurricane, now, instead of Landslide? Or is that haste proc not worth it compared to Landslide?

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Old 08/29/12, 1:00 PM   #311
Balhale
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Paladin
 
Bladefist
Originally Posted by Cloudio View Post
Seems on live server you can use both glyphs; harsh words and glyph of word of glory. They interact with each others so you can now cast wog on target and gain 3% damage inc buff per holy power for 6 seconds for a maximum of 3 hp's. Can we consider that in our rotation ? is it worth it ?
It's also barely a dps increase (1-2%ish) for a large increase in complexity.

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Old 08/29/12, 1:13 PM   #312
Felixphaeton
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Altar of Storms
Consider the following situation:

1. You have 4 Holy Power.

2. Judgement is your only holy power generator that's off cooldown.

3. Hammer of Wrath has less than 1.5 seconds cooldown remaining.

In this situation, wouldn't it be better to instead prioritize the 4 HP TV over Judgement? Using judgement would cap out your Holy Power, and you would have to use Templar's Verdict even with HoW off cooldown. However, if you go ahead and spend your holy power, you can use Hammer of Wrath as it comes off cooldown, which obviously hits harder than Judgement.

Thoughts?

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Old 08/29/12, 2:09 PM   #313
Zephur
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Grognard View Post
Thought just occurred to me: Since we're actively seeking as much hastes as possible, would we be wanting to use Hurricane, now, instead of Landslide? Or is that haste proc not worth it compared to Landslide?
Just ran this in SimC in my current gearset (Zephur@Bloodhoof-US). I'm currently gemmed for Strength. L75 talent is SW. I also swapped the str/mas gem to a str/haste gem before running the sim.

Landslide: 47136 DPS

Stat weights:

Hit - 5.49
Exp - 5.11
Haste - 3.17
Str - 3.09

Mastery - 2.29
Crit - 2.08
AP - 1.30

Hurricane: 47122 DPS

Stat weights:

Hit - 5.62
Exp - 5.07
Str - 3.15
Haste - 3.10

Mastery - 2.41
Crit - 2.16
AP - 1.36

Regemmed with 25str/25haste:

Landslide: 47137 DPS
Hurricane: 47045 DPS

It looks like, at least while we're at 85, it's just a matter of picking the style you like. Personally, I plan on keeping my gems and swapping to Hurricane....Landslide is just so ugly.

Edit: More interesting stuff. I ran stat weights and added them above. Looks like we can save a bundle of money by switching to Geico Hurricane and leaving our gemming as is.

Is it safe to assume that SimC is modelling Hurricane correctly? Unfortunately, it's not playing nice with your spreadsheet, Exemplar.

Last edited by Zephur : 08/29/12 at 3:30 PM.

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Old 08/29/12, 4:26 PM   #314
codezzie
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Shadowmoon
Nevermind spoke too soon...

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Old 08/29/12, 4:48 PM   #315
Grognard
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Zephur View Post
Edit: More interesting stuff. I ran stat weights and added them above. Looks like we can save a bundle of money by switching to Geico Hurricane and leaving our gemming as is.
I see what you did there. LOL

In all seriousness, though, thanks for testing that out. Before raid tonight I'll have to try Hurricane on the dummies and see how that works out...And still need to fix my orange gems, come to think of it.

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