HotR does not given increased physical damage taken, that's from Judgement. HotR causes enemies to deal 10% less physical damage for 30 sec.

Doing some testing with Blinding Light, like Repent all damage except Censure causes the disorient effect to end early.

I'm working on some math now looking at that tier as well. Very preliminary numbers (I still need to double check some of my assumptions with logs and tests in beta) agree that the new SanWrath will be a very strong talent. Assuming the p4t14 bonus remains the same, getting that bonus may make it an even stronger talent.

There are some references to Holy Avenger vs Sanctified Wrath in the MoP All Specs thread, but both talents have since changed. Please point out any flaws in my math if you spot them.

Holy Avenger
Holy Avenger is (currently) akin to a 15 second Zealotry. Every HP generator produces 3 HP.
Sanctified Wrath increases AW to 30 seconds and permits more HoW usage.

Let's try to lowball normal play (to increase the value of HA) and say it takes an average of 5 GCD to generate 3 HP. So you get 1 TV every 6 GCD. HA would change 5-1 to 1-1. 17% TV usage to 50% TV usage - a tripling in TV. In 15 seconds (10 GCD) you would normally get 1.6 TV. In HA you'll get 5. Lose 3.4 HP generators and gain 3.4 TV.

Now, Sanctity of Battle should increase this as you reduce GCD on at least some of your attacks. Since this is napkin math I'm just going to be arbitrary and let's increase HA to a full 4 TV (this is possibly overvaluing - again trying to favour HA).

HA Bottom Line: Lose 4 HP generator and gain 4 TV.

Sanctified Wrath
Now to Sanctified Wrath. First we'll deal with the HoW increase. We'll assume every GCD is already going to be used (no empty GCD), so we're only gaining the difference between HoW and a lesser ability rather than an entirely free attack (lowballing SW a bit). We'll also pretend we're under 20% so HoW would already be available - simply gaining increase of frequency of HoW rather than adding it naturally.

30 seconds is 20 GCD. In 30 seconds you'd normally get 5 HoW, but SW lets us crank out 10. Lose 5 lesser-HP-generators and gain 5 HoW.

Now let's factor the extra 10 seconds of AW. That's 6.66 GCD, so round down to 6. Sequence of: Gen, Gen, Gen, TV, Gen, Gen. That's 5 generators and 1 TV that gains from AW that otherwise would not. 20% bonus damage times 5 Gen and 1 TV = 1 additional Gen and .2TV.

Combine the two. Lose 5 lesser-HP-generators, gain 5 HoW, gain 1 Generator and .2 TV. This means lose 4 generators and gain 5 HoW and .2TV.

SW Bottom Line: Lose 4 lesser-HP-generators and gain 5 HoW and .2TV. Above 20% this becomes lose 9 Gen and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

Comparison
HA is lose 4 Gen, gain 4 TV.
SW is lose 4 Gen, gain 5 HoW and .2TV.

The Generator losses cancel out, and we can consolidate the TV, so we have:
HW gain 3.8 TV.
SW gain 5 HoW.

TV does: (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 260%
HoW does: somewhere greater than 5300 * 161% SP

We'll pretend we have a nice slow 3.7 weapon speed. AP / 14 = 7.14% AP. Multiply by 3.7 = 26.4% AP. Multiply by 260% = 68.7% AP.
Sword of Light converts AP/2 into SP. So HoW goes from 161% SP to 80.5% AP.

Edit: Cannot subtract HoW's base damage from TV until we multiply each ability by its usage!
TV is 260% average weapon damage + 68.7% AP.
HoW is base damage + 80.5% AP.

TV is 260% average weapon damage.
HoW is base damage + 11.8% AP.

More napkin fudging - H Gurthalak damage is 6106 to 9160 - average 7633. HoW is average 5300. So end tier weapon is about 1.5 times HoW. N Ashkandi (first tier) was only about 90% HoW. So we'll say weapon damage will start about equal to HoW. For reference (used in a moment) high end first tier (PvP, actually) is looking like about 17000 average weapon damage.

TV is 260% weapon damage. 3.8 TV is 988% average weapon damage. 988% of 17000 = 167960.
HoW is 100% weapon damage and 11.8% AP. 5 HoW is 500% weapon damage 59% AP. 500% of 17000 = 85000.

TV is 167960 - 85000 = 82960.
HoW is 59% AP.

Reverse engineering we'd need (82960 / 59%) to break even. That's 140610 AP. Around 9 times larger than present values. Even with stat inflation, that's seems... improbable. Double to triple may be within reason, meaning we'd still be 1/3 to 1/6 the required value of AP.

Yes, above 20% SW would gain value, but nowhere near the 3-6 times greater it seems would be necessary. Again factor in how I tried to overvalue HA a bit (in hindsight a bad choice!) and undervalued SW, closer but still a great lead by HA.

Bottom Line
Sanctified Wrath looks really appealing and intuitively 'feels' strong, but in comparison to HA it may actually be lackluster.

Notes/warnings

• I've worked on this off and on for 3+ hours with many distractions. Likelihood of math or logic errors higher than normal.
• This is napkin math.
• Guesstimates abound based on things like weapon and HoW base damage.
• This is on the current implementation - either/both Talents could change by the time you read this post.
• Corrected a bit of math noted above - this does NOT fully correct as the above numbers do not take into account the 2 min vs 3 min CD timers

One additional thing to consider is total usage in a 0:00-6:00 minute fight. You would see 3 cycles of 4 TV gain for HA and 2 cycles of 5 HoW and .2TV for SW, resulting in 11.4 TV vs 10 HoW.

Using your numbers, it would average 1824% weapon damage for TV, or 310080, and 118% AP for HoW, inflating the average to (310080 / 118%) or 262780 AP.


Aside from comparing average damage of a normal TV vs a normal HoW, you would also have to factor in the 20% damage increase on the extra 5 HoW. If HA was used off cooldown, you would also only have have the initial 15 sec overlap with AW.

The final thing to consider is if they keep or change the T13 4pc bonus (Equip: Reduces the cooldown on your AW by 85 sec). With SW, you could have a base uptime on HW of just under 1/3, without it an uptime of just over 1/5th. Raids on the beta are supposed to start soon, hopefully this can give us some insight into Fight mechanics and use that in addition to mathed out values to determine not only the appropriate damage range for abilities, but also the eCD of both cooldowns.

I'm in full 483 pvp epics (so higher than we would likely be starting to raid with). I sit right around 25k AP with zero buffs up.

28k+ AP (without buffs) is a more reasonable number in a fully enchanted gear:



What further raises this number is an calculated flat AP bonus from the typical proc trinkets (3,603 str for 20s / every 90-100s probably) and the on-use trinkets (5,105 str for 20s / every 120s) and also from the weapon-enchant proc (dancing steel: 1,650 str proc for an unknown duration - quite expensive and not available at the beginning of mop).

As my gear is only socketed with 40 str cataclysm gems and only 80% enchanted with MoP enchantings the final ap number is even higher.

It should be noted that, on Beta, Censure is back to only being applied by melee attacks. HotR, CS, and auto attack are the only things that stack it. Judgement, HoW, and Exo do not stack it nor do they refresh it.

This only makes multi-dotting a bit harder like in the days of Ulduar(Kologarn arms and body bring back memories). And makes keeping a stack on a target that has an air phase pretty much impossible.

Thank you arthureld and aylen86. Let's say with procs we roughly double current values - say 32k-34k-ish.

I'm going to rerun the HA vs SW comparison trying to lowball HA and highball SW (since I did the reverse in the last comparison).

Holy Avenger
Let's try to highball normal play (to decrease the value of HA) and say every 3 GCD generates 3 HP. So you get 1 TV every 4 GCD. HA would change 3-1 to 1-1. 25% TV usage to 50% TV usage - a doubling in TV. In 15 seconds (10 GCD) you would normally get 2.5 TV. In HA you'll get 5. Lose 2.5 HP generators and gain 2.5 TV.

Now, Sanctity of Battle should increase this as you reduce GCD on at least some of your attacks. To lowball I'm going to keep HA at 2.5 TV.

HA Bottom Line: Lose 2.5 HP generator and gain 2.5 TV.

Sanctified Wrath
Now to Sanctified Wrath. First we'll deal with the HoW increase. We'll assume over 20%, so HoW is an addition. A rough napkin 'rotation' model shows about 4 good free GCD where HoW could drop in.

30 seconds is 20 GCD. In 30 seconds SW lets us crank out 10. Lose 6 lesser-HP-generators and gain 10 (6 upgrades and 4 freebies) HoW.

Now let's factor the extra 10 seconds of AW. That's 6.66 GCD, so round up to 7. Sequence of: Gen, Gen, Gen, TV, Gen, Gen, Gen. That's 6 generators and 1 TV that gains from AW that otherwise would not. 20% bonus damage times 6 Gen and 1 TV = 1.2 additional Gen and .2TV.

Combine the two. Lose 6 lesser-HP-generators, gain 10 HoW, gain 1.2 Generator and .2 TV. This means lose 4.8 generators and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

SW Bottom Line: Lose 4.8 lesser-HP-generators and gain 10 HoW and .2TV.

Comparison
In 6 minutes we get 3 HA for every 2 SW. This gives a clean direct comparison.

HA is lose 2.5 Gen, gain 2.5 TV. Multiply by 3 for 7.5 lost Gen and 7.5 gained TV.
SW is lose 4.8 Gen, gain 10 HoW and .2TV. Multiply by 2 for 9.6 lost Gen and 20 HoW and .4 TV gained.

Do some consolidation
HW gain 7.1 TV.
SW 2.1 lost Gen, gain 20 HoW.

Math for those interested.
7.1 TV is 1136% average weapon damage.
20 HoW is 2000% average weapon damage and 236% AP.
2.1 gen is 373% average weapon damage, 200% AP, and 8625 damage.

TV is 1136% average weapon damage.
HoW - Gen is 1627% average weapon damage (minus 8625 damage) and 36% AP.

TV is zero.
HoW is 491% average weapon damage (minus 8625) and 36% AP.

HoW is 491% of 17000 = 83470 - 8625 = 74845 + 36% AP.
AP of ~34k.
HoW is 74845 + 36% of 34000 = 74845 + 12240 = 87085.

SW is approx 87085 damage ahead of HA in this best-case comparison.

Bottom Line
In worst of HA and best of SW scenario, SW is ahead by less than 100k total damage in 6 minutes. Can you say 'easily hidden in statistical fluctuation'? I knew you could.

Review my edited posts of earlier and the best of HA and worst of SW scenario was only about 32k in the other direction (more if you map in one HA matching with AW). The margin is so narrow that Blizzard may have done its job and balanced the two. Usage would depend on which of the two is easier to effectively manage or is impacted by a bonus.

Tier bonus inclines towards Sanctified Wrath for now. With something like clcRet managing the extra HoW would be easy as pie. Holy Avenger may be skewed more for multi-target fights, since the HotR (and everything else) would generate triple HP and you could burn them on DS to impact all targets, while the HoW would only strike a single target.

Notes/warnings

• I corrected an issue with earlier math (by the time you read this the other post has been edited) - namely not canceling out the weapon damage between HA and SW until we've multiplied by usage.
• This is napkin math.
• Guesstimates abound based on things like weapon and HoW base damage.
• This is on the current implementation - either/both Talents could change by the time you read this post.

These numbers are quite interesting, thanks exemplar. I wrote a very simple sim that was showing that the two were rather close, so the earlier arguement that HA was mile ahead was scaring me. I also killed Stone Guard 3 times on Friday - using each of the cooldown talents each time. This is only 1 trial, so far from conclusive results, but the HA and SW kills were very close in dps (DP lagged behind though the RNG nature of the talent probably means sometimes it will lag behind and sometimes pull ahead).

Divine Purpose will continue to trail the other two talents based on its nature. The On Demand nature of HA and SW are hugely in their favour. Not only can you engage them linked with other cooldowns (or click items like trinkets), but you can engage them during burn portions of a fight when they are most important for raid success.

Beyond that DP is extremely weak because it only procs from HP usage abilities (Inq, TV, DS). The Cata version at least has many more chances to proc. Very rough napkin shows around 4-5 GCD for every 3 HP. So let's say 1 in 5.5 is a finisher (~18%).

18% of GCD are finishers. Each finisher has a 15% chance to proc and that free TV has a 15%, and so on, which gives you an effective chance of 17.6%. 18% * 17.6% = 3.2% chance to proc. So less than 1 in 30 attacks is upgraded to a TV.

HA gives 2.5 to 4 upgrades every 2 minutes. We'll call SW roughly equivalent since the end numbers are so close to HA. There are 80 GCD in 2 minutes, so 3.2% of these is an average 2.56 upgrades from DivPurp. If you're below average, you're below the lowest possible from HA, if you're above average the sky's the limit and you have the chance to do crazy insane amounts of damage.

Again, factor in the ability to use HA/SW specifically when you want and they will average to far superior to DP. The only advantage DP has going for it is that you don't have to remember to activate it. I do not expect it to be changed as Blizzard has more or less stated this is its goal - something you don't have to activate.

This seems to be the response of my (and Exemplar's) post regarding Crusader's Zeal. Though what will remain of the latter, I do not know.

At least we'll have better proc rates with "chance on crit" things.