[Ret 5.0 Pre-MoP] - Panda-ring to all players - Page 8

lîte · 07/10/12, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

This is true. For humans the new expertise cap with swords and maces is 2210 Expertise rating.

Furthermore our melee hit rating is converted 1:1 to spell hit rating. This is problematic because the spell hit cap is still 15.0%. In a 20 minutes test on the boss dummy my Exorcism missed twice with a melee and spell hit of 7.54%.

Wasn't something being done about this for us? Or am I just imagining this?

Ronark · 07/10/12, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

This is true. For humans the new expertise cap with swords and maces is 2210 Expertise rating.

Furthermore our melee hit rating is converted 1:1 to spell hit rating. This is problematic because the spell hit cap is still 15.0%. In a 20 minutes test on the boss dummy my Exorcism missed twice with a melee and spell hit of 7.54%.

Are you expertise capped? I questioned GC on the Expertise -> Spell Hit, and he did confirm that it is (and has been) implimented for quite a few builds, but the tooltip is not displaying it.

If this is not the case, please immediately report it as a bug so we aren't dealing with DPS loss from incorrect mechanics, la a Cataclysm release Holy Power on CS.

lîte · 07/11/12, 1:15 AM

Originally Posted by Ronark

Are you expertise capped? I questioned GC on the Expertise -> Spell Hit, and he did confirm that it is (and has been) implimented for quite a few builds, but the tooltip is not displaying it.

If this is not the case, please immediately report it as a bug so we aren't dealing with DPS loss from incorrect mechanics, la a Cataclysm release Holy Power on CS.

If Expertise has been made to add to the spell hit cap, would it not only put us at 15%? Unless the spell hit cap was lowered as well.

aylen86 · 07/11/12, 2:03 AM

Originally Posted by Ronark

Are you expertise capped? I questioned GC on the Expertise -> Spell Hit, and he did confirm that it is (and has been) implimented for quite a few builds, but the tooltip is not displaying it.

Err... no.

I'm sitting on 7.54% Melee/Spell Hit (2565 hit rating) and 7.46% Expertise (2197 expertise rating).

I'll repeat my dummy test with 7.5% Expertise (or more), but actually 7.46 expertise + 7.54 hit should be enough to match 15.0% spell hit:

Hamsda · 07/11/12, 5:50 AM

Those 7.46% Expertise include your racial, I assume, since you only have 2197 rating.
My best guess is that the racials will give you the expertise but won't net you the spellhit which should result from it, therefore leaving a bit of a miss chance for your spells...
In my opinion this should be reported as a bug since the racials would become rather useless if you had to cap expertise anyways (or overcap hit to make up for the loss in expertise) to get the spell hit cap. Some human/orc rogues might be affected by this too.

Exemplar · 07/11/12, 9:10 AM

OP updated with Hit/Expertise information.

Do we have confirmed values for Haste, Crit, and/or Mastery rating->1%? I believe Mastery conversion will be Ret specific, since it's no longer X rating = Y Mastery = Z% Bonus Holy damage and instead just X rating = Z Mastery as Holy Bonus Damage.

For those eager for stat comparisons... you'll still have to wait. They depend deeply on precise coefficients and priority sequence. Sorry. I'm positive that Hit/Expertise will remain strong until capped. If not above Str, above all other secondary stats.

aylen86 · 07/11/12, 9:55 AM

I tried to stack one single stat and divided it by the percentage found in the character tooltip:

425 haste rating = 1% haste
600 crit rating = 1% crit
285 mastery rating = 1% mastery

This is my best guess so there is still an error margin of +/-1 rating.

Hamsda · 07/11/12, 9:56 AM

The conversions for secondary stats are already known, they get used in simc/rawr and other tools:
Mists of Pandaria: All Specs, these should not have changed since those tests.
I hope this helps you Exemplar

Theck · 07/11/12, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hamsda

The conversions for secondary stats are already known, they get used in simc/rawr and other tools:
Mists of Pandaria: All Specs, these should not have changed since those tests.
I hope this helps you Exemplar

Those conversions are already out of date. They buffed ratings in one of the more recent patches. For example, the dodge/parry conversions dropped from 1035 rating to 885 rating. Though my understanding is that these can be datamined, so new ones should be easily accessible.

Hamsda · 07/11/12, 11:16 AM

Oh, my bad then. That explains the discrepancy between the posts in the druid forum (one from 6/20 also used those values, so I assumed they were probably up to date) and the values aylen86 posted.

Grognard · 07/12/12, 6:51 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Haste also matters - HotR is not impacted by Sanctity of Battle, therefore does not have its CD or GCD reduced by Haste.

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Hammer of the Righteous
((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed ) + Weapon damage) * 20%)
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.

I noticed this inconsistency in the first post regarding Hammer of the Righteous. Is the notation of HotR not being affected by haste (as seen under the rotation information) merely in regards to the fact it is not specifically mentioned by the datamined tooltip for SoB? It seems highly unlikely that it would go unaffected by haste if it has the same shared CD mechanic as we have for CS/DS on live.

Exemplar · 07/12/12, 8:42 AM

First quote removed. That was added during early Beta before we had the spec-specific-tooltip-updates. The second quote was as-of-last-reported-test/tooltip, so should be accurate.

Arrent · 07/13/12, 10:16 PM

For build 15851:

(This is all from level 85 testing)

First off, Word of Glory is quite bugged currently.

- It will always consume one extra Holy Power despite Glyph/Talent combination. WoG at 1-3 HP will function normally, but between 4-5 HP it will consume 4 HP and only heal as it consumed 3.
- It interacts oddly with Divine Purpose. WoG will not consume Divine Purpose currently, but cannot be cast without a HP and will consume one HP upon cast.
- When casting WoG/EF under the effects of Divine Purpose, you only get a damage bonus equal to the amount of HP you currently have, up to 3/9%.
- Eternal Flame is unaffected by these issues

Glyph of Harsh Words

- Damage is increased by both Inquisition and Avenging Wrath.
- Interacts correctly Glyph of Word of Glory
- Interacts correctly with Eternal Flame (meaning you cannot use EF offensively)

aylen86 · 07/14/12, 2:34 AM

With build 15851 there are some datamined changes to ret:

Blessing of Might (and every other mastery buff) increases mastery by 3000, down from 3500.
Censure was nerfed by ~20%. New coeffecients: Deals ((126 + 11.0% of SP) * 5) additional Holy damage over 15 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
Holy prism and (possibily) Execution Sentence damage was nerfed by ~10%. In case of ES, there is a tooltip error on MMO-C and only healing seems to be reduced.
Two-handed weapon damage increase from Sword of Light was reduced to 20%, down from 25%
as a plus: Exorcism was added to Sanctity of Battle (Retribution)
Divine Purpose proc chance was buffed to 20%, up from 15%.

Glyph changes:

Glyph of Avenging Wrath: healing changed to 1% life every 2 seconds instead of 2% life every 4 seconds.
Glyph of Immediate Truth: instant damage done by Seal of Truth increased by 30%, up from 20%.
Glyph of the Ascetic Crusader reworked: Your Word of Glory can now also be used on enemy targets, causing Holy damage approximately equal to the amount it would have healed. Does not work with Eternal Flame.

This makes this glyph rather useless for ret, I don't think it's wise to spend Holy Power for WoG to damage mobs as ret.

Fordragon · 07/14/12, 4:11 AM

Actually Exo was already being affected by SoB since 2 builds ago,this is just a tooltip update.

You are right about ES,there is no dmg nerf on the ability,only healing.