[Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda? - Page 14

Cloudio · 11/22/12, 4:32 AM

Do we need to reforge back to mastery ( Mastery > Haste ) for multi-target encounters such as windlord Mel'jarak I.E ?

Grognard · 11/23/12, 1:24 AM

Originally Posted by Balhale

The reason you use J > CS during wings is that you are GCD capped anyway so instead of prioritizing CS to give yourself more buttons to press you can prioritize J because it hits harder.

Is this factoring in the Hand of Light hits from Crusader Strike that Judgment lacks? 'Cause it would seem to me, in looking at Recount and calculating the HoL hit for an average CS, that CS still increases overall damage and DPS once you add on the resultant mastery proc.

darkknightx · 11/23/12, 3:53 AM

Somewhat related to the above question; does Haste reduce the cd of Judgment? (I am currently unable to log in to test) If so, wouldn't that factor into which is better to use under AW? At what Haste rating do we achieve a 3sec cd for CS (with and without heroism)?
Combining those factors along with adding Mastery to the damage that CS does should help in deciding which is better under AW.

Exemplar · 11/23/12, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cloudio

Do we need to reforge back to mastery ( Mastery > Haste ) for multi-target encounters such as windlord Mel'jarak I.E ?

No. More HotR and DS remain better than slightly harder hitting HotR and DS. Though Mastery does seem to jump ahead of Crit for this purpose.

Originally Posted by Grognard

Is this factoring in the Hand of Light hits from Crusader Strike that Judgment lacks? 'Cause it would seem to me, in looking at Recount and calculating the HoL hit for an average CS, that CS still increases overall damage and DPS once you add on the resultant mastery proc.

Could depend on weapon damage, AP, and overall Mastery, but both in my spreadsheet and in the latest public release of SimCraft I show that average Judgement Damage is greater than Average Crusader Strike plus its Hand of Light. This is both for blue 463 weapons up through Heroic Shin'ka. So while it's possible someone's an edge case somewhere (as always, I recommend you run your own gear in a tool rather than trust a uniform response), it's unlikely.

Execute range you do not change priority, because HoW remains on the 6 (minus Haste) sec CD. If you prioritize J over CS you are still creating additional, unnecessary conflicts and overall losing out on CS. The only reason you prioritize J under AW is if you are running SW, because SW halves HoW's CD.

Nisall · 11/23/12, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Execute range you do not change priority, because HoW remains on the 6 (minus Haste) sec CD. If you prioritize J over CS you are still creating additional, unnecessary conflicts and overall losing out on CS. The only reason you prioritize J under AW is if you are running SW, because SW halves HoW's CD.

That was my initially thought as well, but that isn't the case. In Execute range you'll end up with HoW > J > CS > TV > repeat in the worst case. When Exo is up it will push CS out of that list; HoW > Exo > J > TV > repeat (if your lucky)

Kwayver · 11/25/12, 6:14 PM

I think i already know the answer to this question but i will ask for the sake of clarity anyway.
with the 5.1 nerf to ret 4set coming (85sec AW reduction -> 65sec AW reduction) will SW still pull ahead of HA and DP?

Balhale · 11/25/12, 7:09 PM

Originally Posted by Balhale

Got updated sim results. At T14H level with the nerfed set bonus (4k dps loss patchwerk) I got these results.

SW (110312) > HA (109344) > DP (108574)

SimC main won't be updated for everyone until that build data is added.

From 3 pages ago.

bromli · 11/26/12, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by Nisall

That was my initially thought as well, but that isn't the case. In Execute range you'll end up with HoW > J > CS > TV > repeat in the worst case. When Exo is up it will push CS out of that list; HoW > Exo > J > TV > repeat (if your lucky)

Isn't the point of clash resolution to minimize the number of open GCDs (thereby maximizing HoPo generation, with the ultimate goal of casting as many TV as possible)? In execute range, you can do HoW > Exo > TV3 > J/CS as your priority and never have any open globals. As Nisall says, if you put J > CS, worst case scenario is HoW >> J >> CS >> TV >> HoW >> J >> CS >> TV. I can't see any reason why he's wrong.

Volas · 11/27/12, 7:10 PM

Due to the upcoming nerfs to the 4set for us i was wondering if it's still worth trying to obtain at all cost?
I'm currently using non optimal 4set piecces using the helm instead of legs and missing out on using [Nullification Greathelm] and [Starcrusher Gauntlets].

Would i be better off dropping the set due to their passive haste gain or keeping the current 4piece?

Cheers.

Kwayver · 11/27/12, 7:12 PM

My arena and RBG rating is reaching the 1600 mark and i am encountering some very difficult teams. For my 2's team we are running a double DPS team, and it seems the best way for us to win in this situation is for the fight to last no longer than 14 seconds. This brings me to my question:

SoJ inflicts an additional 6% weapon damage as holy damage compared to SoT. I get the impression this means SoJ is more effective for burst damage, but eventually Censure ticks will overtake it in output.
Will using SoJ for a short-burst fight provide more damage than SoT? If so, at what point in time would SoT overtake SoJ?

Balhale · 11/27/12, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Volas

Due to the upcoming nerfs to the 4set for us i was wondering if it's still worth trying to obtain at all cost?
I'm currently using non optimal 4set piecces using the helm instead of legs and missing out on using [Nullification Greathelm] and [Starcrusher Gauntlets].

Would i be better off dropping the set due to their passive haste gain or keeping the current 4piece?

Cheers.

4pc is still nearly a 5% dps increase even after the nerf. Use the 4pc.

Voldemort · 11/28/12, 3:20 AM

What about priority of upgrading items? If hard mode loot is not available. First of all: Lei Shi (N), DMC or Vortex (N) - biggest stat burst will give Vortex, but i have some doubts. Your opinion?

Kwayver · 11/28/12, 6:14 PM

Wouldnt weapons be the first to upgrade? Min + Max dmg, Strength and secondary stats all at once

Podima · 11/28/12, 6:18 PM

The counterpoint is that if you don't have a regular/heroic mode weapon, then it may be best to upgrade something that is already BiS (i.e. the DMF trinket as one example) so you get the best value out of your VP over time.

Fierss · 11/28/12, 7:19 PM

The weapon issue is further complicated by H. Starshatter's superiority to Normal Shin'ka. VP upgrading is a mess.