[Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda? - Page 18

Arthur Dent · 12/14/12, 7:44 AM

That's because the AoE effect of SoR and the SoJ-proc from HotR-Nova aren't implemented in SimC yet.
Speaking of which, even the physical part of HotR doesn't proc any seals and Judgment doesn't proc SoT in SimC currently.

My own, very rough, napkin math has SoJ pulling ahead of SoR on up to 10-11 Targets. Well, but I suck at math.

Nisall · 12/14/12, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Arthur Dent

That's because the AoE effect of SoR isn't implemented yet and SoJ doesn't proc from HotR-Nova.

Right, didn't realise SoR wasn't implemented properly, but SoJ does proc on each target HotR hits. I tried it out last night on Windlord and here is a small bit of proof from 2 test dummies. I was standing inbetween them, one in front of me the other directly behind me.

Arthur Dent · 12/14/12, 12:17 PM

Sorry, I've expressed myself badly. I meant that the HotR-Procs are also not calculated in SimC.

aylen86 · 12/14/12, 1:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nisall

Right, didn't realise SoR wasn't implemented properly, but SoJ does proc on each target HotR hits. I tried it out last night on Windlord and here is a small bit of proof from 2 test dummies.

It's even more complicated than that: SoJ does not proc from Divine Storm whereas SoR does. This makes SoJ not a full functional AoE device unfortunately.

ApocalypseAP · 12/14/12, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

It's even more complicated than that: SoJ does not proc from Divine Storm whereas SoR does. This makes SoJ not a full functional AoE device unfortunately.

Not only this, but regular auto attacks only proc on the target hit with Seal of Justice.

Balhale · 12/14/12, 4:26 PM

I could have sworn we have SoR implemented. Perhaps a recent build broke that.

To clarify, SoJ only procs off HotR for AoE, right?

Balhale · 12/14/12, 7:52 PM

Ok, fixed Judgment not procing seals, fixed SoR AoE, implemented SoJ AoE on Hammer. SVN Simcraft has the changes , non SVN will have to wait for latest build.

Ronark · 12/15/12, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by Balhale

I could have sworn we have SoR implemented. Perhaps a recent build broke that.

To clarify, SoJ only procs off HotR for AoE, right?

SoJ procs on HotR nova for 16% weapon damage per target.
SoR procs on the above and DS for 6% weapon damage per target (still one instance per spell cast).

Originally Posted by Balhale

Ok, fixed Judgment not procing seals, fixed SoR AoE, implemented SoJ AoE on Hammer. SVN Simcraft has the changes , non SVN will have to wait for latest build.

Only SoT procs from Judgment.

Balhale · 12/15/12, 11:05 PM

Why must Blizzard do this to me? Time to add yet another special boolean for Judgment.

Ixanthylus · 12/16/12, 3:48 AM

Comparison tested on MSV Stone Guardian trash pulls prior to boss:

Rotation:
Judge(at max range while closing the gap to first mob in melee range)>Exo(glyphed for AoE)>HotR>Inq@3HP>(I personally then use HotR or J depending on which is available first)>Exo(if AoW procs)>DS(4+ HP)> When two Stone Guardians enrage target one and unleash [Iron Belly Wok] & ES together and keep them casting simultaneously(not a shared CD). Rinse and repeat above refreshing Inq with two seconds or less remaining.

Results:

SoR: Avg. DPS = 84k influenced by raid DPS

SoJ: Avg. DPS = 110k influenced by raid DPS

Ixanthylus, Area-52 US

Tobrexa · 12/16/12, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by Tobrexa

Edit2: tested HotR, and it seems that it applies the active seal on the primary target, that is to say: SoT/Censure and SoR AoE. Weird behaviour of SoJ: also hit every target in range, not just primary target... couldn't verify if it applied snare debuff

Edit3: HotR applies SoJ and SoJ debuff to every target in range

I found this 3 months ago. As nobody answered to this, I let it go. Now testing SoJ in raid. It seems to provide equal or even (far) more dps than SoR, but that is only an impression, of no scientific worth.

I still don't think this is intended, as SoR would have no value whatsoever.

Could someone with the time and the mathskills look into it?

As I see it. SoJ procs on every HotR, SoR on every white hit an DS. SoJ procs for 16% wpn dmg, SoR for 6%.

Even if you had double the amount of white hits + DS than HotR, SoJ should still pull ahead.
Equal at a approximately 2,66 amount of white hits + DS versus HotR

I liked in lfr the upfront dmg of SoJ, being able to somewhat trail BM hunters in AoE dmg. Then again, this is too small a sample size to extrapolate.

Edit: the question is now: is it worthwhile to switch to SoJ even at 2-3 targets and use HotR? My guesstimation is that censure stacks, if maintained correctly, would still ecxeed SoJ dmg by a wide margin, but SoJ management would be far easier. As usual all depends on the exact number, which I can't provide at present date.

Ronark · 12/16/12, 2:23 PM

Don't forget Tobrexa, that SoR is available to all specs where SoJ is Ret specific.
While we may or may not use it, Protection will use SoR for AE when SoI isn't needed.

Ronark · 12/16/12, 6:55 PM

Based on my rough math, SoJ is always better than SoR for AE damage and scales faster with haste.

← Click Here

Several factors do contribute to weigh in both sides: With enough haste you can drop one filler in exchange for one additional HotR, causing SoJ to pull vastly ahead. The Divine Purpose talent adds more DS and thus more SoR damage. If you averaged more than 16 DP procs in a minute, SoR would overtake SoJ.

Balhale · 12/17/12, 12:51 AM

Your filler cycle generates 5 HoPo and only consumes 3, so your cycle will overflow starting on cycle #2 and need extra finishers which skews more towards SoR. Both HA and DP will also increase DS:filler ratio and skew towards SoR.

Also, you can't drop fillers with additional haste until >50% haste when the GCD stops dropping. In other words, pointless to consider outside of lust.

I'll fix the J thing sometime in the next couple days and then we can sim it to check for sure.

Hulabaloon · 12/17/12, 6:51 AM

I ran simcraft on my current gear (16.75% haste), with DivPurp, for a 5 min fight with CS prioritised over everything but Inq.

There were:
114 White Swings
68 CS
54 TV

Putting those numbers into Ronark's rough math:

SoJ: (68X + 114) * 16% = (1088X + 1824)% Weapon Damage
SoR: (68X + 54X + 114X) * 6% = (1416X)% Weapon Damage

Without DivPurp:

114 White Swings
69 CS
42 TV

SoJ: (69X + 114) * 16% = (1104X + 1824)% Weapon Damage
SoR: (69X + 42X + 114X) * 6% = (1350X)% Weapon Damage