The same as always- that presumably 2pTier X >= 4pTier W.

My mistake-- I was typing out CS, but had Judgment's 6 sec cooldown in mind at the time.

So, implementations of both set bonuses up with the original info they gave us.



Those are my preliminary attempt at optimizing the rotation for t15 bonuses. Things that were of note: prioritizing TV with 4pc up with TV5 was always a dps loss for non-DP profiles, CS is used over Exo for all 3 t75 talents, but isn't worth using over HoW, especially for SW. I haven't yet messed with changing the rotation inside of cds.

Full results html is here, including action lists. Please feel free to look through them and suggest improvements. I've also added the bonuses to SVN simcraft.

For the t15DP and t15HA

Action priority list line F :
The "inquisition.up" should be completed by a "remains>=20" parameter so that we do not lose a GCD refreshing INQ during wings.
Maybe put Exo before CS if bonus 4pt15 is up ?

Also I don't see the point in adding this condition concerning INQ for ES. It takes buffs on cast so even if inquisition.remains>=4 , it will be buffed. No need to cast it only if INQ>15sec, or maybe there is a subtlety that I don't understand here.

DP only

Maybe add a condition on CS if=!(buff.t15_ret_4pc.up)|(cooldown.hammer_of_wrath.remains>=0.5&cooldown.judgment.re mains>=0.5&cooldown.exorcism.remains>=0.5)
To avoid overwriting the buff most of the times ? or maybe it's too clunky... :/

For t15SW
The INQ condition for ES here is more consistent and should be used for all profiles
I would definitely put Exo before CS if hp<=3 OR buff 4pt14 is up


Here are some ideas, I don't know if all of them are doable since it's difficult to sim human on-the-fly decision.

Good luck on writing a near-perfect action list

How is "use CS if the proc isn't up" not applicable to real in game situations?

Well I don't try to make SimCraft look like a toy for numbers. It's a great tool. I already said that maybe the extremely long condition may be too clunky, or maybe you didn't see my auto-criticism ?

I just try to express in SimulationCraft syntax the reasoning of prioritization in abilities to maximize the proc of the buff without capping HP or wasting an already existing proc. If you ask yourself what difference can it make in the real world, then you didn't see my point.

I don't say that these clues are perfect, besides, simulation/spreadsheet never is. But there's no wrong in making a proposition, and try to participate in the construction of the best profile available for paladins.

This attempt to translate human on-the-fly decision is because these decisions are what make the difference between good gameplay, or robotic /insert clcinfo with no self judgement in my opinion.

My bad for trying to help I guess

Cloudio - yes, it would be a DPS loss. You cannot gain enough extra stats on gear to pull ahead. Tier gear has the same stat allocation (budget) as other items of the same ilvl, and any damage generated by set bonus is truly free damage.

You can generally get a few hundred extra DPS from Str and Secondary Stats going from LFR Tier to Normal non-tier or Normal Tier to Heroic non-tier, but you lose several hundred/thousand more in the exchange. The net, so far, has always been negative.

Just for reference:
T14 (current tier) 4 piece bonus alone is worth around 3000 DPS (with SW). By 'alone' I mean disregarding 2 piece and the stats on gear, just the benefit from the AW reduction. At a glance at Balhale's numbers, 2P T15 should be roughly the same (2T14+2T15 ~= 2T14+4T14, the extra stats on the T15 pull it ahead). To tie this to Cloudio's question, you'd need 2 pieces of gear (remember, 2 piece bonus wasn't included) that give 3000 DPS+ from stats.

Balhale has already guesstimated the T15 4 piece alone at around 10,000 DPS.

I did a quick guesstimate of Warrior T15 4 piece and get ~3.5k DPS bonus (using input of 100k DPS with 20% crit rate over 450 second fight). That sort of lines up with our last bonus - a roughly 3% overall damage buff.

Logically our bonus is in for further work to bring it in line. Somewhat flummoxed as to what can presently be tweaked beyond the CS proc rate (and dropping that to 10-15% to reduce the bonus by the necessary 2/3 would exacerbate RNG issues).

I'm curious to the change to Sword of Light. The site lists the changes limited to 30% bonus to WoG and 100% bonus to Flash of Light, but the tooltip itself reads a change; "Increase direct damage done: +100%"

Mistake? Just how much of a buff is this essentially?

As usual, they're saying they want to get the mechanics right before they do any real number tuning. They've got plenty of time to look at it and figure out what to do.

Tooltips are often updated incorrectly during PTR iterations. Don't take them as gospel - that specific Sword of Light change is PVP-focused targeting ret's ability to self-heal, not a damage buff.

There was talk earlier in the thread about practical use of the Druid Symbiosis on a Ret Paladin, which gives Wrath. According to WoWDB, the scaling is [13,794 + 140% of AP] Nature damage.

Was SimC going to have a Wrath damage/'rotation' option? Could interesting to see how it fairs on some fights (ex Nef/Ony in BWH) with proper glyph setup (Word of Glory and Harsh Words).