Elitist Jerks [Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda?

 03/13/13, 3:02 PM #511 Exemplar Bald Bull   Exemplar Human Paladin   Scarlet Crusade Nice they flat out said RPPM # is increased by 10%. That, at least, is clear. Regarding Haste on RPPM: Let's throw out some unrealistic, but simple, flat numbers for an example. Pretend your weapon has weaponspeed of 3 and you have something with a RPPM of 10. At 10 PPM you should average 1 proc per 6 seconds. In 6 seconds you should have 2 autoattacks. Effectively each autoattack should have a 50% chance to proc. Truly this number flucuates, as Caltiom is correct, your special attacks throw off the timer. You'll get 4 special attacks in those 6 seconds. Each special and each auto having an on-the-fly chance calculated based on last attack (i.e. last-chance-to-proc). Those 6 seconds worth of attacks should sum to 100% chance, but you could have one at 2%, one at 5%, two at 14%, one at 20%, and one at 45%. Again, on average you should get a proc in here, but in reality it's not guaranteed (there was never a hard 100% chance on a specific attack - the new mechanic could push you to 100% proc chance if you sit long enough without proc). Now add 10% Haste. In 6 seconds you get 2.2 autoattacks and 4+ special attacks. The proc chance for each is calculated exactly as if you had no Haste. So you're getting 0.2+ extra attacks with the 'same' chance as previous. Bottom line - on average you should get 10% more procs. So, while the math on the server is surely a nightmare, on our end you can just take RPPM value and multiply by haste-on-gear (they've tried to clarify that absolutely no buffs increase this value) to get your personal RPPM value. Classes that like Haste should get more out of RPPM than those who avoid it. Edit: And I may have misinterpreted Podima as asking 'how does haste change RPPM' when the real question is 'what's wrong with haste changing RPPM'. The answer to the second is: nothing. Blizzard said they wanted Haste to have an impact so there aren't weird edge cases of RPPM causing Haste devaluation. Last edited by Exemplar : 03/13/13 at 3:32 PM. Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine." Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!" Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
 03/17/13, 8:20 AM #512 Malakrys Glass Joe   Malakrys Human Paladin   Tichondrius (EU) I did some testing with the Gaze of the Twins (normal) yesterday and i must say that i am VERY dissapointed in the results. There were hardly any stacks of 3 and up to 4 minutes without any proc... The new RPPM-System really is something special -.- I will stick with my T14-Trinkets until they fix this stuff. Worst of all: the Gaze should proc more often, the higher your crit-chance, but in all the testing yesterday (over 5 hours) this NEVER occured. It seemed like the proc-chance got lower by every second the combat went on. And as far as haste is concerned: Well i have 28% haste unbuffed, so thats not really little but still, the trinket is really bad imo. edit: Almost forgot to mention that the overall uptime is somewhere between 35-45% (with 45 beeing an extremely lucky streak) so far (with greetings from Austria) Malakrys Last edited by Malakrys : 03/17/13 at 9:21 AM.
 03/17/13, 11:47 AM #513 Montoyal Glass Joe   Montoyal Dwarf Paladin   Ragnaros Should the 2+ targets rotation during AW+SW be HoW -> HotR -> HoW -> DS -> repeat?
03/17/13, 1:31 PM   #514
Malakrys
Glass Joe

Tichondrius (EU)
 Originally Posted by Montoyal Should the 2+ targets rotation during AW+SW be HoW -> HotR -> HoW -> DS -> repeat?
use HotR only at 4+ targets in comination with SotR.
But use seal swapping only if the targets don't die within a few seconds, else it's not really worth the gcd (unless there are 8+ targets).

for 2-4 targets use CS and try to keep up Censure on at least 2 targets (optimal 3). Keeping up Censure on 4 targets is VERY challanging and risky because the timewindow to refresh can get very short.

03/17/13, 1:50 PM   #515
Podima
Von Kaiser

Duskwood
 Originally Posted by Malakrys use HotR only at 4+ targets in comination with SotR. But use seal swapping only if the targets don't die within a few seconds, else it's not really worth the gcd (unless there are 8+ targets). for 2-4 targets use CS and try to keep up Censure on at least 2 targets (optimal 3). Keeping up Censure on 4 targets is VERY challanging and risky because the timewindow to refresh can get very short.
Per the OP ([Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda?) you can and should be using HotR & DS once you have 2 targets, as it is a damage increase even with multi-Censuring.

 03/17/13, 2:04 PM #516 Montoyal Glass Joe   Montoyal Dwarf Paladin   Ragnaros I guess I wasn't clear enough, Should we trade Judgement for HotR during our AW rotation if 2 targets are available? The comparison being HotR vs Judgement on 2+ targets, CS is irrelevant unless T15 4pc is taken into account but that's a whole different story. Last edited by Montoyal : 03/17/13 at 2:10 PM.
03/18/13, 12:36 PM   #517
Exemplar
Bald Bull

 Originally Posted by Montoyal I guess I wasn't clear enough, Should we trade Judgement for HotR during our AW rotation if 2 targets are available?
HotR beats CS on 2 targets, but it does not beat Judgement.
1 target: J > CS > HotR
2 targets: J > HotR > CS.

Quick compare in spreadsheet shows it's around 3 targets for HotR to beat J (with reasonable Mastery). The reason HotR is higher priority in non-AW AOE is precisely why CS is higher priority in single target - CD length, clash, and total usage.

Even if you had 3 or more targets during AW, it would be a judgement call. Are you better doing overall more DPS by cleave, or better pouring greater targeted damage directly into your focus? That's a question that can vary by fight, tactics, and gearing (overgear a fight where you used to decide the opposite).

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

03/18/13, 4:42 PM   #518
Alterra
Glass Joe

Dunemaul
 Originally Posted by Exemplar Even if you had 3 or more targets during AW, it would be a judgement call.
*rimshot*
Don't forget about Glyph of Double Jeopardy further increasing judgment damage by another 20% swapping between targets for each cast.

 03/20/13, 11:22 AM #519 MarshallX Glass Joe     Petegabriel Blood Elf Paladin   Turalyon With regards to trinkets, here's what I came up with giving Hit/Expertise the same stat value as our highest DPS un-cappable stat (to consider reforging). I'm pretty sure it's fairly close to rank them top down, but correct me if you see anything wrong. I left Gaze out of the chart because it has to take into account a characters crit rating... https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...4S2VfaVE#gid=0 Here's my if statement if any of you feel like taking it any further. `=IF(E2="Crit",F2*1.59,IF(E2="Strength",F2*3.71,IF(E2="Mastery",F2*1.61,IF(E2="Haste",F2*2,IF(E2="Hit",F2*2,IF(E2="Expertise",F2*2))))))` Although, now that I'm thinking about this, I might need to take haste of an individual character into this...blah. Last edited by MarshallX : 03/20/13 at 11:29 AM. Everything cleaves. And their cleaves cleave. And those cleaves thunderclap. These thunderclaps deathcoil. So, no melee.
 03/20/13, 11:29 AM #520 Podima Von Kaiser     Gogor Draenei Paladin   Duskwood Can you please make the spreadsheet publicly viewable?
03/20/13, 11:32 AM   #521
MarshallX
Glass Joe

Turalyon
 Originally Posted by Podima Can you please make the spreadsheet publicly viewable?

Everything cleaves. And their cleaves cleave. And those cleaves thunderclap. These thunderclaps deathcoil.

So, no melee.

 03/21/13, 7:26 AM #522 Lacroix Glass Joe   Gingercus Blood Elf Paladin   Thunderhorn Can you add t14 trinkets with a 2/2 upgrade also to compare with the normal mode ToT trinkets. Last edited by Lacroix : 03/21/13 at 7:33 AM. Reason: Found the answer to my previous question
03/21/13, 8:20 AM   #523
Exemplar
Bald Bull

 Originally Posted by MarshallX With regards to trinkets, here's what I came up with...
Just for the record, I personally would not recommend using this. Not that the math is improper or that it didn't require hard work, but because stat weights are not universal. Just because these are valid values for MarshallX doesn't mean they are valid for your character with your gear. Plug the wrong stat weight into a good math formula and you still get the wrong answer (GIGO - garbage in, garbage out).

Basically the same reason I argue against BiS items in a vacuum - it always depends on everything else you're wearing (and raid buffs present in your specific group).

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

03/21/13, 4:08 PM   #524
MarshallX
Glass Joe

Turalyon
 Originally Posted by Exemplar Just for the record, I personally would not recommend using this. Not that the math is improper or that it didn't require hard work, but because stat weights are not universal. Just because these are valid values for MarshallX doesn't mean they are valid for your character with your gear. Plug the wrong stat weight into a good math formula and you still get the wrong answer (GIGO - garbage in, garbage out). Basically the same reason I argue against BiS items in a vacuum - it always depends on everything else you're wearing (and raid buffs present in your specific group).
Absolutely correct, especially with RPPM and Haste.

Everything cleaves. And their cleaves cleave. And those cleaves thunderclap. These thunderclaps deathcoil.

So, no melee.

03/22/13, 3:46 AM   #525
averykey
Glass Joe

Magtheridon
Odd simcraft rotation, anyone else? Is it worth delaying like it says in the rotation.

 actions=rebuke actions+=/mogu_power_potion,if=(buff.bloodlust.react|(buff.ancient_power.up&buff.avenging_wrath .up)|target.time_to_die<=40) actions+=/auto_attack actions+=/inquisition,if=(buff.inquisition.down|buff.inquisition.remains<=2)&(holy_power>=3|tar get.time_to_die=14 actions+=/execution_sentence,if=buff.inquisition.up&time>=15 actions+=/divine_storm,if=active_enemies>=2&(holy_power=5|(buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)) actions+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=5|(buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3) actions+=/hammer_of_wrath actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.hammer_of_wrath.remains,if=cooldown.hammer_of_wrath.remains>0&coold own.hammer_of_wrath.remains<=0.1 actions+=/exorcism actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.exorcism.remains,if=cooldown.exorcism.remains>0&cooldown.exorcism.r emains<=0.2 actions+=/judgment,if=!(set_bonus.tier15_4pc_melee)&(target.health.pct<=20|buff.avenging_wrath. up)&active_enemies<2 actions+=/hammer_of_the_righteous,if=active_enemies>=2 actions+=/crusader_strike actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0&coold own.crusader_strike.remains<=0.2 actions+=/judgment,target=2,if=active_enemies>=2&buff.glyph_double_jeopardy.up actions+=/judgment actions+=/divine_storm,if=active_enemies>=2&buff.inquisition.remains>4 actions+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.inquisition.remains>4

 Elitist Jerks [Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda?