|
[Ret 5.2 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda?
Retribution Concordance (RetCon) 3/5/13| 5.2 - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda?
This original post is always a Work In Progress. That said, it aims for a high degree of accuracy at any given time. "Game experience may change during online play." Please Do Not Ask for the following
Do not expect answers to these questions. Welcome to the Retribution Concordance (RetCon) for 5.2. This information is thanks to the frequent posters on these boards, who are too numerous to name. All credit is due to those who have spent hours researching and testing - any errors in typing or comprehension are mine. Please PM me for suggestions, typo reports, or other corrections.
[top]MoP/5.0 Changes
[top]SpecsThere is no cookie cutter build. Talents are compressed and often situationally useful. [top]Talents[top]Tier 1All movement affecting.
PoJ is the generic winner (other talents may have situational superiority). [top]Tier 2PvP or Trash CC
Whiel FoJ and BoG appear designed for PvP, they could have raid usage depending on fight gimmicks. Repentance has relatively generic utility as Dungeon or Raid trash CC. No generic winner/recommendation. [top]Tier 3Healing or damage mitigation.
Selfless Healer may have solo utility (for instant cast) or situational boss utility. EF (loss of HP) produces a loss in DPS and therefore would be undesirable during the typical boss fight (healing/survivability may be worth it on a gimmick fight). SS no longer requires mana. At 30k AP we'll have 15k SP. This means 21k shields every 6 seconds as long as we have the GCD to keep it running. Only using SS during entirely empty GCD can still lead to approx 20% up-time. That is significant free damage reduction. For this reason, and the ability to prioritize more highly on a survivability fight, SS is the recommended PvE talent. [top]Tier 4Vague Hand or PvP utility.
Lackluster tier, providing possible marginal PvP utility. Unbreakable Spirit is the generic PvE recommendation (more ability to reduce/avoid damage). Should a gimmick fight benefit from one of the Hands, Clemency would be superior. [top]Tier 5DPS increasers.
All good DPS increases. SimC and spreadsheet disagree on generic winner, but margins are narrow (1-2% total DPS variance). Potentially player choice as to which works best with your playstyle. AW CD is 2 minutes. This matches HA perfectly. Synchronizing the two will enhance the utility of HA. However, faster AW also bolsters SW. Both benefit greatly from this reduced CD and are likely to remain competitive. [top]Tier 6New DPS ability.
Execution Sentence is superior for single-target Boss fights. Multi-target fights incline towards Light's Hammer. T14 breakpoint is somewhere between an average of 1.5 and 1.7 targets for LH to do more damage than ES. If 2 out of 3 LH casts can get 2 targets for full duration, LH wins. More than 2 targets or 2 targets every cast for full cast cause LH to win by a landslide. [top]Glyphs[top]PrimeNo longer exist. [top]Major
Of those available, Double Jeopardy is a DPS increase where there are 2 important targets. Templar's Verdict is a pleasant passive, since up-time is relatively high. Mass Exo is better than the tooltip - apparently your active target takes a full 100% and all subsequent hits are at 25%. This means the trade off is loss of range vs 25% Exo on every target beyond the first - a situational choice. Immediate Truth and Inquisition are significant DPS losses. IT is a loss after approx 5 (yes, five) seconds of combat. [top]MinorWill not be covered as the present intent is to make Minor Glyphs cosmetic or similar non-play-impacting changes. Example: changing Judgment graphic from a Hammer to an Axe. [top]Rotation[top]Single TargetInq > 5HP TV > ES > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV (> SS) This is a priority, not a rotation. CD lengths on abilities and HP generation prevent a set rotation from being followed, instead use the best immediately-available ability. Best is listed left to right. You do not want to engage your first Inq until you have 3 HP. Thereafter you seek to refresh when under 2 seconds remaining duration (again, with 3 HP). Add Sacred Shield at the bottom of priority if desired. Should only be used if it won't delay some other cast (for reference, clcInfo will only recommend if it won't delay another ability). Outside cooldowns, there should be little reason to alter this priority even with 4 piece T15. There is the possibility that adding a 4HP TV rule could earn 0.2% more DPS, based on bromli's napkins. This would be Inq > 5HP TV > ES > HoW > Exo > CS > 4HP TV > Judge > 3-4HP TV (> SS). My own tests in my spreadsheet and Simcraft show this is not a gain.Bromli overturns his analysis. [top]Multiple TargetInq > 5HP DS > LH > HoW > Exo > HotR > Judge > 3-4HP DS (> SS) LH is extremely powerful with 2+ targets. LH beats ES by 1.7 targets, so as long as you get near full duration on 2 or more targets every cast, LH will beat ES. DS is quite strong (no Armour Mitigation). You can swap from TV to DS with as little as 2 targets. With T15 4 piece, which greatly buffs TV, you would want 4 targets before swapping to DS. HotR pulls ahead of CS at 1.7 targets. The Holy damage from the splash gains from Inq, as does the Mastery damage from that splash (a double-dip on Inq). Swap at the same time as DS. Given enough targets, HotR would increase in priority over Exo or HoW. Guesstimate between 4 and 5 targets it would be better than both HoW and Exo (4 looks to be ahead on raw damage, but doesn't account for lost/delayed HoW/Exo, it may take 5 to compensate for such loss). SoR limps far behind Censure and requires 64 (5.2 change, see below) targets to pull ahead (not even counting the possibility of rolling multiple Censure). Most fights keep SoT up and Censure rolling on your main target, even as you AOE. This is not counting the GCDs lost to swap seals. Those lost GCD require the targets to be present for 30+ seconds. 5.2 buffs SoR from 6% to 9%. [top]Symbiosis - Faking Ranged with WrathThe Druid L87 ability, Symbiosis, grants Retribution Paladins the spell Wrath. This is a cast spell with no CD, allowing 'Wrathspam' at ranged. In dungeon blues this may be roughly equivalent to melee setup, but by the time you are geared in epics it only produces 70-80% of total DPS. It is never recommended as primary attackstyle. This is only recommended on a gimmick fight where melee would be impossible or otherwise suffer extreme handicaps, such as inability to be in range 20-30% of the time. Priority: Inq > ES > HoW > (Judge if Censure is at risk of dropping) > Wrath > Exo > Judge (any other time) Inq up-time remains imperative. This is more for the 10% Crit bonus, than the bonus Holy damage (which Wrath, being Nature damage, does not receive). While additional Judge (beyond necessary for Censure refresh) and Exo may do less damage than Wrath, they are necessary to produce sufficient HP for Inq. Obviously you cannot cast Wrath during movement, but all the other attacks are instants and would remain in the listed sequence. Glyph of Harsh Words does not seem worthwhile - insufficiency of ranged HP generators and the need to keep Inq running means little opporunity to spare a WoG on the enemy. The additional weaker HP generators (and WoG itself) used would at best eat into the margin gained by the glyph, and at worst result in less DPS than without the glyph. Note 1: I haven't tested or modeled, but there's a chance that Seal of Insight (granting 10% Cast Speed), could be superior to SoT (losing Censure). Note 2: It's also possible Glyph of Inquisition would be useful - you would need fewer HP generators to maintain full up-time, losing only some Holy damage bonus and retaining the full 10% to Crit. [top]Stats and Gearing[top]Stat WeightsRating Conversion for Level 90
Stat weights float in relation to each other. The above is in a roughly T14 Heroic set of gear based on SimCraft. While it is highly recommended you run your own stat weights, in general you can feel safe with: Str > Haste > Crit=Mastery Reforging all Mastery to Crit, reforging all Crit to Mastery, or reforging to equally balance Crit and Mastery seem to produce reasonably similar results. [top]ReforgingReforging allows you to exchange 40% of a combat rating already on an item and converts it into a combat rating not already on an item. Example: If an item has Crit, you cannot add more Crit, if it has no Crit then you could reforge 40% of another rating (Expertise, Haste, Hit, or Mastery) into Crit. An item with 100 Hit and no Crit could be reforged to 60 Hit and 40 Crit. Since we cannot reforge any stat into Str, then we focus on our most important stats. These are your goals, in order. Hit cap. Under hit cap, reforge the worst* stat into hit. Expertise cap. If hit capped and under expertise cap, reforge your worst* stat into expertise. Next best stat. If you are now hit and expertise capped and you have gear that has not been reforged, aim to reforge inferior stats to superior stats. * Worst is relative. Generally reforging to Hit or Expertise is a good thing, but you can go further in-depth with reforging. For maximum DPS gain either carefully perform math on your gear to most closely reach Hit and Expertise caps (inverse "Price is Right" rules - closest over the cap wins), or use a website/program (such as my spreadsheet, or WoW Reforge Calculator & Optimizer) which will offer reforging advice. Reforging Item A from Hit to something else and Item B from something else to Hit may permit values closer to Hit/Exp cap, thus permitting a few additional Rating to Crit, Mastery, and Haste - an overall minor DPS gain. [top]Set Bonuses
[top]Gemming, Enchanting, and Upgrading[top]Gemming[top]Pre-raid Dungeon GearIn pre-raid Dungeon gear, Str is superior to every other stat* by a margin greater than 2 to 1. Str is sufficiently superior to every other stat, that you do not want to Hit Cap through gemming if it can be done via Reforging. Note: Balhale and myself have both found it may be impossible to Hit cap Dungeon gear without gemming hit. Gem pure Str except in the following situations: You cannot Hit Cap via reforging. Use purple Hit gems, or straight blue if absolutely desperate. You cannot Expertise cap via reforging. Use Expertise in any slot (via appropriate Orange/Purple/Green). * - Not true for Hit/Exp, but bear with me. Lengthy explanation of why Str is desirable, even compared to double Secondary Stats is: here. [top]T14 Raid Gear and BeyondGemming Str + Haste (Fierce) Orange in Red sockets, full Haste (Quick) in Yellow sockets, and Hit + Haste (Lightning) in Blue sockets yields more dps than going full Str gems. 160 Str vs (320 Haste * 0.54 Str-equivalent per Haste) = 160 Str vs 172.8 Str-equivalent. This will only increase as gear gets better. Otherwise you want to continue to gem as much Str as possible for the same reasoning as above. The transition point between Str or Haste gemming is fluid. Please use a tool to determine stat weights for your gear - if 2 Haste > 1 Str, gem for Haste. If 2 Haste is < 1 Str, then gem for Str. Be advised, if your model shows 2 Haste > 1 Str the changing of your gems themselves can alter this to no longer be true. Ex: Joe the Paladin runs SimCraft and sees 2.05 Haste = 1 Str. Joe swaps out 8 Str gems for Haste gems, re-runs SimCraft and it now says 1.95 Haste = 1 Str. [top]SocketsIn general you will see +60 stats for a single socket bonus, +120 for two sockets, +180 for three sockets. Helmets break this rule - single socket and meta provides +180 stats. Socket bonuses should be uniformly worthwhile. Our "worst" stat is a shade less than half Str in value - the extra stats from socket bonus pushes the total ahead. [top]Meta-Gems[Reverberating Primal Diamond] is now the superior Ret Meta Gem. Wrathion's Capacitive Primal Diamond will be superior while it is available. It has a 15 * 1.923 (28.845) RealPPM. Every 5 stacks it fires an attack of 280 + 75% AP Nature damage (thus expect no Inq bonus, but CoE should still modify). It can Crit (using melee Crit %). A helm must have a Meta present, even if inactive, to activate socket bonus on that item. [top]EnchantsAll secondary stats listed are ratings.
Until you can easily reforge for Hitcap, using the hit enchants (back and feet) is advantageous. Windsong can proc all 3 stats (Crit, Haste, and Mastery) simultaneously. This provides 4500 secondary stats vs Dancing Steel's 1650 Str, with potentially roughly the same up-time. The sheer quantity of additional stats makes Windsong superior if this pans out. If Windsong is changed to permit only 1 proc at a time, Dancing Steel will shoot ahead in comparison. Windsong appears to be underperforming - proc rate appears to be 1 PPM for all 3 combined, rather than each separately. This varies from how it performed in Beta. Roughly 13% up-time for any given buff, thus 13%^3 (0.2%) chance to have all simultaneously. Dancing Steel should definitely pull ahead. Windsong does still appear to be superior to Elemental Force. Balhale's modeling shows Windsong 0.7% to 1.4% total DPS behind Dancing Steel this tier. We still need to test Windsong and Dancing Steel intensively in the game to determine more details of their proc mechanics. Previous enchants have been made/broken based on Ret-specific details such as Censure applications and Seal procs. Recommend the mat-cheaper Windsong on pre-Raid gear. For Raid weaponry you may upgrade to Dancing Steel. 5.2 Raid Weapons strongly recommend themselves to Dancing Steel. [top]UpgradingUpgrading is presently not active in 5.2 For 1500 Justice a rate item can be upgraded. Rares can only be upgraded once. For 750 Valor an epic item can be upgraded. Epics can be upgraded up to twice, for a total of 1500 Valor. The following is based on my personal investigation of items and number crunching of their stats. A rare increases all stats by approx 7.68%. An epic increases all stats by approx 3.77% (two increases = 7.68%). Using these formulas has produced accuracy within +/- 1 rating point on every item tested, with the vast majority being precisely accurate. As would seem only logical, the more stats an item has at base, the better it performs at upgrade. Be advised that not all items are created equal. Example: you would gain more from upgrading a Normal chest item vs a Heroic wrist item. [top]Which item should I upgrade?There is no flat answer. This will involve many personal judgement calls. In general, upgrading your weapon will provide the largest overall gain. Not only are you gaining Str and secondary stats, but you are gaining raw weapon DPS. This base damage carries over to quite a few of our attacks. Some gearslots have more stats than others - typically the Chest, Helm, and Legs hold the largest values. You would get more bang-for-the-buck from upgrading these locations. That said, valor points have a cap of 1000 per week. Thus it takes ~1.5 weeks to generate enough to increase one item fully. If you feel you are only a short time from upgrading a currently-best-choice item, then you may be better saving your Valor or spending it elsewhere. 16 items multiplied by 1500 Valor = 24000 Valor. At 1k a week, that's 24 weeks, or somewhere just short of 6 months to upgrade all slots. For every item slot you upgrade twice you add an additional 1.5 weeks - thus the less duplication you produce, the better end results you will have. This is where the 'will I replace it soon' personal judgement calls come into play. 5.3 will reduce the Valor cost of upgrades to 250 per level. Thus 500 Valor to fully upgrade a single item. This drops the required time to generate sufficient Valor to upgrade every slot from 24 weeks to 8. Upgrading a single item twice only adds 1/2 a week. 'Will I replace it soon' becomes less painful by a large degree. [top]ConsumablesFlask: [Flask of Winter's Bite] - 1000 Str. No-brainer. There are no MoP cauldrons. Potion: [Potion of Mogu Power] being pure Str will be far and away better than any other possible potion. As always, use under AW (and Heroism if possible). Food: [Pandaren Banquet] only provides 275 Str, so it weaker than the single person buff from [Black Pepper Ribs and Shrimp]. [top]Cooldowns[top]Avenging WrathAvenging Wrath increases all damage by 20% while in effect. This lasts 20 seconds with a 2 minute cooldown, thus providing a 16.6% effective up-time. While the most impact is granted during Heroism as the increased autoattack rate and decreased CS CD allow more (or more superior) attacks, losing an entire Avenging Wrath during a fight because you delayed for Heroism is a net loss. During AW, even if the target's health is above 20%, you can use HoW. Make sure to use those HoW that become available. Sanctified Wrath talent extends this buff by 10 seconds (total 30 seconds), for up-time of 25%. It also reduces the CD of HoW, permitting more usage during this buff. Note: AW matches with Holy Avenger talent. Should you decide to select that talent, it would be advantageous to macro their usage together. During AW with SW the recommended priority effectively becomes: HoW, Exo*, HoW, TV/Inq, repeat. * - Often Exo will not be available, based on CD - when unavailable replace with Judgement. With T15 4piece it is: HoW, CS, HoW, TV/Inq, repeat. With HA this is: HoW, TV/Inq, repeat. Hard to tell if HA+ T15 4 piece should be CS, TV/Inq, Repeat. This can be napkin mathed, but has not yet as of this writing. If you're using Divine Purpose (why are you using Divine Purpose?!?!?), just stick with the ordinary priority during AW. [top]Guardian of Ancient KingsGuardian of Ancient Kings provides a stacking Strength buff. The buff stacks to a maximum of 20, providing a 20% bonus to Str. The buff lasts until the Guardian dies or when it expires 30 seconds after cast. If you are using the Sanctified Wrath talent, you would engage both GoAK and AW simultaneously to match their 30 second durations. Otherwise, it is advised to use GoAK first to stack the Str bonus. After 10 seconds you would use AW. This would provide the maximum Str benefit for the entirety of the AW. GoAK CD automatically resets when boss combat ends or on death. This means the ability will always be available after a wipe or if used late in a previous boss fight. For those who have been holding T11 Prot 4piece, in 5.2 when you swap out of the gear your Guardian buff should be removed. [top]Holy AvengerThe talent Holy Avenger grants a new 2 minute CD. This CD causes all HP generators to generate 3 HP on usage, and increases the damage of HP generators by 30%. If you use this talent, it is advised to macro AW and HA together for a single button press. [top]Pre-pottingPotions have a 1 minute CD outside of combat. Within combat a potion can only be used a single time. To maximize potion usage, it is possible to pre-pot. This is the practice of using a potion a few seconds before combat engages, such as while the tank is running in. This places you on the 1 minute potion CD, but it immediately begins ticking down as it began outside of combat. Thus 1 minute later, in the middle of the fight, you can again use a potion. This second usage is your combat usage and prevents further potion usage during the fight. Tank threat should, ever since the Cataclysm Firelands buff, not be an issue, even for Pre-pot purposes. If you find yourself struggling with threat early in a fight, and the fight does not involve a threat gimmick, stage an intervention before your tanks' become underthreat addicts. [top]CD Usage with Pre-pottingIf you pre-pot then you may choose to begin CD usage shortly after the pull to stack with this benefit. While this gains some additional bonus from the Str bonus of the potion and can permit an additional CD in a fight (first CD used earlier, the timer may be up to re-use an extra time before end of fight), it does have some drawbacks. Historically initial threat could be an issue, requiring throttling of DPS or using a GCD on Hand of Salvation - such requirement tended to be a loss of DPS compared to an unthrottled CD period. Overall popping throttled or HoS CD vastly weakens that CD cycle. Assessment seems to be that this is a DPS gain if you have an additional CD usage at the end of the fight due to starting the cycle earlier. This would be the same quantity of full-power CD usage, plus the partial-power initial CD usage. If you are unable to gain an additional CD usage during the fight, then you trade one full-power CD usage for a partial-power CD usage. The partial-power, even under Mogu Power, is likely less boost than a full-power CD without throttling or HoS GCD requirement. As stated above, threat should be a non-issue, so at this time that should not be a drawback. Typically between 3 to 8 seconds of the 25 second pre-pot duration will be lost waiting on the pull or with the tank running in. This gives 22 to 17 seconds of Str buff. You have 'wasted' some buff time, however since this is a second 'bonus' potion and does not prevent later use of a potion, you still have a net gain. If you are not using the Sanctified Wrath talent, it is recommended you stick with the normal routine of building 3 HP and then engaging Inq. This means 16 to 11 seconds of Str buff under Inq. If you are using SW, then you will need to refresh Inq sometime during CD, regardless. As such it is advantageous to begin with a 1 HP Inq, such as follows: Pre-pot, pull, Exo, Inq, AW+GoAK, begin normal priority. Again, you are losing some of your pot to applying Inq, but the 'bonus' potion effect means you are still producing a net gain. You may desire to hold ES until GoAK stacks are high or some trinket (and/or Dancing Steel) proc is about to expire, in order to cast it at maximum efficacy. Be aware this anywhere-up-to-20 second delay could lose an ES cast by the end of the fight, making it a subjective call. [top]Mechanics
Ret Specific
Note that 5.2 increased SoL from 10% to 15%. Inquisition should no longer be able to be refreshed to lower duration. Example: you have Inquisition buff with 25 seconds remaining, 1 HP, and use the Inquisition ability - you should no longer drop to 10-12 seconds on Inquisition buff. [top]Haste and the Soft CapThere does not appear to be a soft cap on Haste. If we were to somehow push Haste to extreme levels (such as over 50%), you continue to gain benefit. By continually reducing the CD of abilities affected by SoB, you are able to 'replace' lower damage attacks with higher damage attacks. This continues to net an increasing benefit, especially as autoattack speed continues to increase AoW procs. There still may be points of inflection. If Haste is high enough, you may gain more damage from 1 more Crit/Mastery Rating than 1 more Haste Rating, as you make the attacks you are already producing hit harder. Use your tools (SimC or spreadsheet) to monitor your stats. [top]Attacks: Base damage and Coefficients at L90Autoattack ((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage Generates Holy Power? No Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A. Crusader Strike ((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 125%) + 791 Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes. Hammer of the Righteous ((((AP/14) * 3.3) + Weapon damage) * 20%) Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes. AOE damage calculated as: ((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 35%) as Holy. If the single-target portion hits, the AOE portion automatically hits all targets in range. Each target takes the full AOE damage, the AOE value is not split between targets like Holy Wrath in Cataclysm. Thus more targets means more total damage done. Templar's Verdict ((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 275%) + 1,727 Generates Holy Power? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes on GCD. Divine Storm (((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 101.25% Generates Holy Power? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes on GCD. Seal of Righteousness ((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 9%) Generates Holy Power? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A. Cannot miss. Hits all targets in range. Seal of Justice ((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed ) + Weapon damage) * 20%) Generates Holy Power? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A. Last tested as not scaling with AP at all. Has not been tested since patch went live.Based on a recent log of mine, SoJ does appear to be scaling with AP. Seal of Truth ((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed ) + Weapon damage) * 12%) Generates Holy Power? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A. Cannot miss (hits if the attack generating it hits). Censure: 107 + (9.4% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks 535 + (47% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. Censure is now applied by melee attacks (auto, CS, TV and J), this leads to far more reasonable stacking and for easier target swapping. Censure application can miss, while Censure ticks cannot miss. Judgment Base Damage: average 623 Coefficient: 54.6% of SP and 32.8% of AP Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes. Damage does not change based on seal. Exorcism Base Damage: average 6,960 Coefficient: 67.7% of AP (no benefit from Spellpower). Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? Yes. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes. Hammer of Wrath Base Damage: 1747 to 1930 Coefficient: 161.0% SP. Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? Yes. Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes. Mastery Damage This adds an additional 14.8% + 1.85% per Mastery (value / rating) damage of Crusader Strike, Divine Storm, Hammer of the Righteous, Hammer of Wrath, and Templar's Verdict as Holy Damage. The original attack (CS, DS, HotR, HoW, or TV) is calculated, modified by de/buffs and armour. Mastery then takes the appropriate % of this damage and applies that as a flat value. The Mastery cannot Crit - if the base attack Crit then you are taking 15+% of the Crit, so the increase is already factored. The only de/buffs which impacts Mastery are Inquisition and CoE. [top]Races[top]AllianceWhen it comes to racials that impact PvE damage, the Alliance is superior. Draenei Heroic Presence now grants only the Draenei the +1% hit. Not a bad bonus, as it will allow additional reforging of stats and more possible gear combinations. A free HoT to marginally increase survivability is of minor PvE or PvP use. Dwarf Dwarves could net 1 free Expertise via Mace specialization. Again, free secondary stats is free additional DPS. Stoneform which can clear poison/disease/bleed effects on a 2 minute cooldown could be a minorly useful PvP ability. Human A human could net 1 free Expertise via Mace or Sword specialization. Free secondary stats is free additional DPS. The free CC break can provide a few additional seconds of DPS (or move to survival spot) in PvE, and in PvP allows replacement of PvP trinket with something providing more raw Resilience or DPS stats. [top]HordeHorde paladin racials have little to no impact outside of PvP purposes. Blood Elf A silence effect and some extra mana regen. The addition of Rebuke to baseline makes the silence less important. Mana should be a non-issue, the additional gain is unimportant. Possibly of PvP utility during Rebuke cooldown, or on a Boss fight where multiple interrupts are necessary. Tauren A 2 second AoE stun and higher base health. Possibly useful in PvP, but not for PvE as most bosses are immune to stun. [top]Professions[top]AlchemyMixology adds additional Str to [Flask of Winter's Bite]. Precise value currently unrecorded. Also provides the benefit of extended flask duration. Raw stats are likely tied with Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Engineering, Inscription, and Jewelcrafting, but the extended duration may be considered an extra edge. [Zen Alchemist Stone] is a useful starting trinket. [top]BlacksmithingSocket Bracer and Socket Gloves, allow two additional gems. Naturally you want to use [Bold Primordial Ruby] or [Quick Sun's Radiance]. Tied with Enchanting, Engineering, Inscription, and Jewelcrafting at 320 Str. If 640 Haste > 320 Str then BS could edge out other professions. [top]EnchantingEnchant Ring - Greater Strength provides 160 Str. Two rings, total of 320 Str. Tied with Blacksmithing, Engineering, Inscription, and Jewelcrafting. [top]Engineering[Reinforced Retinal Armor] which provides Sockets for Tinker's Gears makes this an excellent starter helm. This would be obsoleted by the next tier. Synapse Springs II now boosts Str by 1920 for 10 seconds every minute. This locks out trinket cooldowns for 10 seconds. Excellent boost but cannot be stacked with trinkets during CD phases, requiring some CD juggling. Averages to 320 Str boost, the equivalent of Blacksmithing, Inscription, and Jewelcrafting. [top]HerbalismLifeblood provides 2880 haste for 20 seconds, with a 2 minute cooldown. This is average 480 haste or 1.13% at L90. You likely would not want to use this under Heroism as it could cause sub-3-second CS cooldown issues.(Rough modeling says sub-3-second CS CD does not appear to be a bad thing). Weaker than the crafting professions. [top]InscriptionSecret Tiger Fang Inscriptionprovides 520 Str and 100 Crit. This is 320 strength more than the Greater Tiger Fang Inscription. Tied with Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Engineering, and Jewelcrafting. [top]Jewelcrafting[Bold Serpent's Eye] grant 160 Str over the regular Rare Bold. Multiply by two for 320 Str bonus. Tied with Blacksmithing, Enchanting, Engineering, and Inscription. If 2 Haste > 1 Str then JC falls behind BS. [Quick Serpent's Eye] only grants 480 Haste, a bonus of only 50% stat. [top]LeatherworkingFur Lining - Strength (3) provides 500 Strength to Bracers. This provides 330 Str beyond the (new) 170 Str bracers enchant. 10 Str ahead of other crafting professions. [top]MiningToughness, the self-only perk of Mining, provides 480 stamina and thus absolutely zero damage. No DPS increase, marginal survivability increase. [top]SkinningMaster of Anatomy provides 480 Crit rating. This is 0.8% at L90. 480 Crit is a bit more than half the DPS of 320 Str. A weak DPS increase compared to the crafting professions, but still superior to Mining. [top]TailoringSwordguard Embroidery (3), grants 4000 AP for 15 seconds, and has a 55 second ICD with 15% proc chance. Assume procs every 60 seconds and this would be an average 1000 AP, compared to 705.6 AP (320 Str * 1.05 Plate Specialization * 1.05 Kings * 2 AP per Str) from other professions. However, this replaces the normal cloak enchant. 1000 AP - 706 AP = 294 AP is more of an increase than 180 Hit or Crit to cloak, so it may be the best profession perk. [top]Macros and Mods[top]MacrosNone presently listed. Feel free to submit useful macros. [top]ModsMods are purely optional. Some players run with none, some with dozens. This section is intentionally light, focusing on two that are of great assistance with Ret specific tasks, namely priority and timing. CLCRet/CLCInfo will help you properly follow your priority setup and track procs or temporary buffs. OmniCC is an addon that adds text to items/spells/abilities that are on cooldown to indicate when they'll be ready for use. It integrates nicely with CLCInfo. Other recommended mods are a threat meter, unit frames, and bar mods - there are many options from which to select. Pulling threat leads to death and zero DPS. Having units and bars in efficient locations reduces eye movement and chance you are looking at the wrong place on your screen at the wrong time - this increases DPS and reduces chance of death. This author strongly recommends personalization of the UI to fit your needs and playstyle. Designing your own UI rather than using the default or a pre-packaged UI is the difference between a meal at a 3-star Michelin ranked restaurant and McDonalds. [top]Frequently Asked QuestionsQ: What seal for PvE? A: There are now only two PvE seals. Seal of Truth provides superior single-target DPS, while Seal of Righteousness can provide superior multi-target DPS with 4+ targets. Q: What seal for PvP? A: There are three possibilities for PvP: Seal of Truth, Seal of Righteousness, and Seal of Justice. SoT requires stacking on a single target and would be inferior for target swaps or long time off target (application from ability usage and not just autoattack mitigates this). SoR provides instant damage and cleave to hit multiple targets. SoJ produces much less damage, but applies a -50% runspeed debuff for 8 seconds. Which is superior is likely a personal choice depending on team composition, buffs, debuffs, and similar factors. Q: What does weapon speed do to us? Do we want slow or fast? A: All things being equal (Str and iLevel, therefore average DPS), we generally still want slow. Seals are not normalized to weapon damage, thus the higher damage range on slow weapons is superior. Q: What weapon enchant? A: Dancing Steel. Q: Should I use a fast 1h weapon to stack SoT quicker? A: No. Switching weapons is a DPS loss. The majority of our damage is physical (Auotattack, CS and TV). The lost damage during the ramp up period is greater than the boost to Censure ticks. The fact that CS, TV, and Judgement also apply stacks of Censure make this even more moot. Q: Should I swap librams? A: What's a libram? Q: Should I grab this leather/mail piece of gear? A: No. Leather and Mail items no longer have Attack Power as a separate stat. Classes naturally wearing those armour types gain 2 AP per Agility. The lack of Attack Power vs. a Plate item with Str means the Leather and Mail will always be inferior. Additionally, if you wear all Plate you get the Retribution Plate Specialization bonus of +5% Str. Q: Should I take a higher DPS weapon with Agi? A: No. An Agi weapon of equivalent iLevel should never be as good as the Str weapon due to the same lack of AP issue. Q: Do you have a Best In Slot gear list? A: No. This thread will not cover an overall BiS discussion, though may theorycraft specifics of trinket mechanics and possibly identify a specific BiS item. With gemming and reforging making gear highly configurable, a single BiS is far more fluid. Check the rest of the Paladin forum, there may be a BiS themed thread. [top]Valuable ResourcesThe following tools can all be used for stat and gear comparisons, recommendations of upgraded items, and comparing different attack priorities. Simulationcraft is a program which can be downloaded and run. Fully armed and operational battle station. Ret module presently supported by Balhale. My MoP Retribution Paladin Spreadsheet is an Excel Spreadsheet (requires macros). 5.2 version updated March 26th. WoWReforge.com is a useful website for reforging to maximum effect. [top]Glossary
While supplies last (order now!). No guarantees implied. Your mileage may vary (or kilometerage). Not available in certain states (of mind). For indoor or outdoor use only. Not for use by small children (that's why we have ovens and barbecue sauce). May cause incontinence and/or temporary blindness while driving. If effects last for more than four hours, brag and link the damage meters. [top]Thread Change Log9/24/12 Initial Post. Updated gemming information based on some discussion. Updated again for more gemming clarity. 9/25/12 Shed doubt on Windsong. Blue sockets. 9/27/12 Formatting fix. 9/30/12 Synapse Spring trinket lockout is 10 sec, not 15. 10/8/12 Priority HP4 notation. 10/10/12 Expanded glossary 10/11/12 GoMassEx, HotR, weapon enchant recommendation updates. 11/23/12 SoJ scales with AP. Updated HotR to show it's normalized. 2/25/13 Requested cleanups. Some 5.2 tweaks. Some notes about Upgrading (even though non-applicable when 5.2 starts) 3/5/13 5.2. Inq can't be refreshed to lower duration. HoP update. 3/18/13 SoL correction for FoL doing 100% bonus heal. 3/26/13 Spreadsheet update. More Thunderforged items. itemID displays on Item Calc tab. 3/28/13 Clarified priority under Avenging Wrath header. 4/1/13 - Rewrote Pre-pot section. 4/22/13 - With 4 piece T15 swap to DS at 4 targets, not 2. |
I believe that SoB affects both TV and DS, as was evident in last night's H Madness run.
|
Great stuff. I noticed one thing, though. Arent gems +100% itemization for secondary stats, rather than 50%? If so, would suggest gemmingforhit is optimal, then STR after cap, then reforging for Exp. Also, socket bonuses are fairly powerful. With a three socket piece, and a single yellow socket, using an orange str/haste gem would likely be worth it, instead of staying with hit or str gems and losing bonus.
|
Gemming str-haste on reds and full haste yellows,yields more dps than going full str gems since they have double secondary stats.
|
I started to rewrite the gem section, then stopped. I'm still inclined to say gem for Str. Here's why.
Let's say you have gear where it is possible to reforge stats to hit and expertise cap. Your options are: Gem hit/exp to (near) cap. Reforge lesser stats to better stats. Gem Str. Reforge lesser stats to hit/expertise. In both you would achieve Hit/Expertise cap. In the first you're just gaining more Secondary Stats, but in the second you gain Str. Example with numbers: Hit/Exp cap in gems, 500 extra Haste, 300 Crit, 200 Mastery (total 1000 secondary stats) on gear. 500 Str in gems, Hit/Exp cap via reforge. Using the values Balhale previously calculated for stat weights (listed in OP): 500 Str vs (500 * 0.54) + (300 * 0.43) + (200 * 0.43) Secondaries 500 vs (270) + (129) + (86) 500 vs 485 Str won. Cap Hit and Expertise via reforging, if possible. Unless you hunt for Exp/Hit items in Dungeons, it's actually hard to cap without gems. Absolutely use the gems if you need to reach caps. However, by the Heroic Epics stage there's a lot of Exp/Hit and it's easy to cap (easy to overcap, actually). That said, Fordragon is accurate on Yellow sockets. OP will be updated appropriately. |
I think you misunderstood the argument, Exemplar. Because of double secondary stats on gems, and 2 haste > 1 strength, it's always better to prioritize haste over strength, which means:
If you find yourself short of the hit or exp caps, even after reforging, use the appropriate hit>exp>haste>str gems instead:
|
I'm going to fix the reforges on my pre-raid gear set today and run a stat weight sim at the pre raid gear level to see if it's still worth gemming hybrids. I'll probably do a normal one either tomorrow or the day after.
Also, it's worth matching anything that has a yellow or red socket, and probably most blue sockets as well, especially at lower gear levels where hit/exp overcapping is not as much of a concern. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Balhale - in a thrown together Dungeon gear set I get Haste at 0.46 Str, Crit at 0.29 Str, and Mastery 0.28. So rule of thumb would be to gem Str until you get epics. You could continue to do so and have very little lost opportunity. By the end of the tier you can follow: Red - Str/Haste gems (Orange - Fierce). Yellow - Haste gems (Yellow - Quick). Blue - Str/Hit gems (Purple - Etched). You always match colours (or typically hybrid colours) for socket bonuses. They're worth it. Only use further Hit (or any Expertise) gems if you cannot reforge or enchant your way to caps. OP updated per gibborim's suggestion. Pre-raid and raid gear gemming differentiated. Somewhat related: I'm inclined towards Accuracy cloak, unless you literally cannot reforge away enough Hit. Why? Worst case you wind up with extra Mastery/Crit (effectively same as enchanting Superior Crit), best case you net some extra Haste and an overall gain (since it's better than Crit). Since the boot enchant is guaranteed Haste, I wouldn't try the same gimmick there. |
Quote:
Edit: to reiterate my comment on SoR proccing on DS: it hits only once per single DS hit: you could also say that the initial DS hit procs a normal SoR. SoR scales linearly with the number of mobs hit by DS Edit2: tested HotR, and it seems that it applies the active seal on the primary target, that is to say: SoT/Censure and SoR AoE. Weird behaviour of SoJ: also hit every target in range, not just primary target... couldn't verify if it applied snare debuff Edit3: HotR applies SoJ and SoJ debuff to every target in range |
You literally cannot reforge away enough hit in T14H gear if you also want to match the blue sockets and the hit bonus on the boots. As I'm going through getting my pre-raid (463) set reoptimized it's exactly the opposite. I can barely scrape together enough hit and exp.
Why str/hit in blues instead of haste/hit? If str/haste is better than str then haste/hit should be better than str/hit. Anyway, here are the results for the pre-raid gear set stat sim both using SW: This (higher dps) set has as much haste as I could get without dropping horribly under hit/exp cap (14160 str, 2549 hit, 2535 exp, 4725 haste, 2564 crit, 917 mastery): Normalized to Str: Str - 1.00 Hit - 0.79 Exp - 0.56 Haste - 0.48 Mastery - 0.30 Crit - 0.30 My results agree pretty well with yours then. With a less haste focused set (14337 str, 2550 hit, 2542 exp, 2901 haste, 2725 crit, 2237 mastery), I got: Normalized to Str: Str - 1.00 Hit - 0.77 Exp - 0.54 Haste - 0.59 Mastery - 0.30 Crit - 0.31 Both sets are gemmed for strength. Getting a Lessons of the Darkmaster trinket is a huge priority - the thing has about a quarter of the needed expertise on it. |
I also ran some Windsong vs. Dancing Steel runs.
Windsong (1500 crit,mastery,haste): PreRaid - 64166 dps, 19.5% uptime on each buff T14H - 113210 dps, 21.8% uptime on each buff Dancing Steel (1650 str): PreRaid - 64619 dps, 45.5% uptime on the buff T14H - 114763 dps, 51.4% uptime on the buff At preraid gear level, Dancing is a 0.7% increase over Windsong. At T14H gear level, it is a 1.4% increase over Windsong. Your enthusiastic praise of Windsong over Dancing should probably be toned down, but Windsong isn't a bad alternative for people who can't afford Dancing. |
Quote:
Not sure I understand your DS+SoR comment. DS hits 4 targets, do you get 4 SoR, or 16 (1 per target, per hit)? 4 SoR is original assumption (one proc that cleaves), while 16 is the definition of exponential (4^2). Original assumption requires 6 targets. Exponent would reduce necessary total targets. Quote:
Dancing Steel: 1PPM on melee attacks that land. Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown. So Windsong has more proc chances (we'll have to determine if things like apply/refresh Censure count). Windsong can simul-proc all 3 buffs. Both enchants have identical 12 sec durations. I don't see anything to incline to more/longer procs for Dancing Steel. I'm not sure how Dancing Steel could have up-time of more than twice Windsong, or are you saying Haste has a 19.5-21.8% up-time, Mastery a separate 19.5-21.8% up-time, and Crit a separate 19.5-21.8% (with reasonable overlap between the three)? If Censure applications or Seal procs can proc Windsong (remember the proc-fest that was Avalanche?), it could have significantly higher uptime than presently predicted by your Sim. I'm unaware of extensive Ret testing in Beta. As far as I can tell no one even tested to figure out PPM, we eventually were handed them, much less test edge cases specific to individual classes. Pretty easy test - autoattack for prolonged period with no haste and see if we're getting 1 (only autoattack), 2 (seal or censure app, not both), 3 (auto, seal, and censure app), or more PPM. |
Quote:
However, those buff numbers are roughly what I remember from beta when I messed around with Windsong. |
Quote:
|
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 4:53 AM. |
Forum Infrastructure by vBulletin 3.6.12 ©2000-2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.