[Ret 5.3 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Who ordered the Mogu'gai Panda? - Page 33

Dzzope · 02/28/13, 12:04 PM

Cheers for the break-down.. Very helpful.

Ok so not as big an increase as I though but still very welcome.

Montoyal · 02/28/13, 9:04 PM

I for one am content with being in the middle of the pack since I'm not a hardcore raider but do like to play a class that I enjoy as effectively as possible .

I was pretty happy with our dps on 5.1, but it seems that almost every other class got a bigger buff on 5.2 even if they were already ahead of us on 5.1 such as windwalkers and frost dks. Maybe I just suck at reading all the patch notes numbers and understanding what they mean. I just hope I don't end up being a liability to my group.

Exemplar · 03/05/13, 3:35 PM

Thread updated for 5.2.

New 5.2-ready spreadsheet available: here.

Spreadsheet should hold most new gear (there are holes on some normal-mode tier items and Thunderforged items are sparse in Wowhead - not sure if they're just not present yet or only some slots are eligible for TF items). Even managed to add itemID for anything epic. As always, PM any issues you find.

Ronark · 03/05/13, 3:56 PM

@Exemplar I can't PM you, your private message box is full.

Just two minor changes:

-Should mention that Hand of Purity now reduces all damage by 10% in addition to the 70% reduced DoT damage. Unconfirmed at this time if that means a reduction of 77% DoT damage, or 70% total Dot damage,

-Should mention that Inquisition can no longer be refreshed to a lower duration (i.e. use Inq at 3 HoPo for 30 sec duration, shouldn't be overridden by a 1 HoPo Inq). Since servers aren't up yet, its hard to confirm if this is what will happen but one could infer that from the patch notes.

aylen86 · 03/05/13, 4:04 PM

Furthermore I stumbled about this:

Items

Item Enhancements
Dancing Steel now has a 15% increased chance to activate.

Exemplar · 03/05/13, 5:00 PM

Originally Posted by aylen86

Furthermore I stumbled about this:

Interesting! That helps Dancing Steel pull further ahead of Windsong. The margin before was noticeable, but not as large as normal between 'starter' enchant and 'epic-DE-mat' enchant.

Ronark - done and done. Also cleared space, someone clogged my PM box.

Bladedge · 03/05/13, 8:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ronark

-Should mention that Inquisition can no longer be refreshed to a lower duration (i.e. use Inq at 3 HoPo for 30 sec duration, shouldn't be overridden by a 1 HoPo Inq). Since servers aren't up yet, its hard to confirm if this is what will happen but one could infer that from the patch notes.

I tried it on live and I can confirm, you can no longer rewrite an inquisition of longer duration with one casted with less holy power. No GCD is spent, you just can't cast it.

Montoyal · 03/06/13, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Smyte

HoW > J > HoW > TV is a self-sustaining rotation. Never use CS during SW, J will always be off cooldown and is a significantly harder hitting ability.

Going way way back, does Judgement really hit harder than CS + HoL? I'm having trouble on confirming this statement.

Pdawg · 03/06/13, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Montoyal

Going way way back, does Judgement really hit harder than CS + HoL?

Simulationcraft shows it quite well: Simulationcraft Results

You would need about 66% mastery for CS to pull ahead of Judgment. As weapon damage increases with higher item level weapons, this gap may close, but it appears unlikely that CS + HoL will hit harder than Judgment even in T15.

anafielle · 03/06/13, 1:31 PM

So I found some surprising stuff while I was spending some quality time with Simcraft over the last few days and figured this thread could help me out. I have a little trinket problem and I wanted to make some educated plans for my 5.2 trinket options.

Although my sims are only really relevant for my gear, I wanted to share the results because some of them surprised me.

I am not a complete Simcraft expert, but I do know how to take my current gear and mess with it. I did some reforging for some of my the sims using the expertise trinket (I can actually use all the expertise, so those sims were run with fully utilized stats) and then started simming every trinket pair that I conceivably had access to. Here are the relevant ones. I left out the Twins trinket which just isn't that great, and the hit trinket since I cannot possibly put it into my gear until my gear changes a lot.

In T14H (my current gear):

517 Darkmist / 489 Lei Shen: 112759.1
517 Darkmist / 502 Lei Shen: 113732.0
489 Lei Shen / 522 Shado Pan (exp -> haste): 114161.4
517 Darkmist / 510 Lei Shen: 114324.5

502 Lei Shen / 522 Shado Pan (exp -> haste): 115008.6
510 Lei Shen / 522 Shado Pan (exp -> haste): 115567.8
517 Darkmist / 522 Shado Pan (exp -> haste): 115440.2

517 Darkmist / 522 Spark of Zandalar: 113497.1
517 Darkmist / 522 Primordius (crit -> haste): 113905.2

522 Shado Pan / 522 Spark of Zandalar: 114653.1
522 Shado Pan / 522 Primordius: 115195.3
522 Shado Pan / 528 Spark of Zandalar: 115036.0 (thunderforged)
522 Shado Pan / 528 Primordius: 115375 (thunderforged)
522 Spark / 522 Primordius: 113280

Interesting. These results may not be meaningful for everyone but they certainly surprised me in a couple ways.

1) 517 Vortex and 510 Lei Shen hold up really damn well. Less surprising when you consider that they are very nicely itemized, particularily if you have the HM + upgraded versions. I simmed only the 517 of the Vortex since that's what I have; I simmed a couple different levels of the Lei Shen since I am stuck with the 489 sadly.

I wasn't surprised by Lei Shen looking strong, but I will admit I was extremely surprised by Darkmist Vortex. I have a clear memory of that trinket simming much, much less impressively even at the 509 & 517 level for both me and Fiers. Have any of our changes impacted the value of this trinket? Maybe just my higher ilvl now? Or perhaps I am remembering it wrong?

2) Results (on my gear) showed that Spark was consistently simming worse than Primordius.

This is very disappointing, since Spark appears to be much more nicely itemized, and also is about 100x cooler. I honestly wondered if the procs were both implemented correctly, but some of my non-expert sorting through the Simcraft results did seem to show the procs occuring in both results about as often as I'd expect. Is everyone else seeing the same thing? I also did some simming with the T15H set, to see if the set bonuses made a difference. I do agree with Spark and Primordius being the 2 BIS options, but Spark still appears to be the weaker trinket compared to Primordius. Weird, I guess the crit trinket is a good one for us.

3) As expected, since I can use the expertise, the VP trinket is a solid buy. In fact the VP trinket + 517 Vortex are a strong enough combination that my sims do not show me replacing either of them through normal modes -- including Thunderforged.

---

Blizzard's itemization in this expansion is going to eventually drive me totally nuts. Trinkets alone, there are 7 options, 4 different item levels of Throne loot, 4+ different ilvls of 5.0 loot (which certainly appear to remain very relevant), accuracy trinkets whose value depends on whether you can utilize that hit or expertise, etc .... really wish that there were some easy decisions here.

Anyways, thoughts? I am quite surprised by some of the results. Primordius stronger than Spark? Really? Did I miss some previous discussion of this? Has anyone simmed extensively with different results from mine? I admit I'm skeptical of what I've uncovered.

Also, since I know a lot of people read this thread to locate things like "someone tell me what trinkets to get" ...... sim for yourself. I left out lots of relevant trinket ilvls because I only checked the trinkets I cared about. For example, 496 Vortex and/or 509 Vortex may still compete with the 522 trinkets. I don't know. If you have one of these trinkets, you probably want to check.

ps: I disapprove of this changed thread title. > : (

Alterra · 03/06/13, 4:32 PM

Regarding Darkmist and Lei Shen, the biggest change that I can think of is adding the new T14 4p 10% Judgment and Seal Damage with the old set bonus being made baseline for Ret. This is probably increasing the value of the haste on both trinkets a bit compared to 5.1. Did they still do so well without the new T14 bonus?

Balhale · 03/06/13, 6:30 PM

If you're doing sims for t15 gear, you'll need to change the rotation from the current default which is the non t15 4set rotation. Still need to test rotations with full 522/535 gearsets.

Hulabaloon · 03/07/13, 6:25 PM

Spark of Zandalar dropped last night and as anafielle also mentioned, it doesn't seem to be performing very well.

It's 5 Real PPM.
At 26.48% haste, I should be gaining 6.324 stacks every minute.
So I'm getting the 7333 strength buff for 20secs approximately once every 1min 35secs.

Here's my log from Council of Elders: Details for Hulabaloon - 07-03 20:33 - Fallen Legion - World of Logs

Procced 5 times over an 8 min fight, which lines up pretty perfectly with my napkin math.

So, 7333 str on a 1:30 CD seems to be worse than a 2/2 hc Lei Shen's (3935 str with 45 sec CD). Though maybe the extra 155 haste offsets that in favour of the spark?

Cartavian · 03/07/13, 6:50 PM

Perhaps WoL isn't recording something right. I noted your Inq uptime was at 29.8%. Were you not refreshing or is it due to something else. If you were keeping your uptime per usual then perhaps it wasn't recordimg something right.

Hulabaloon · 03/07/13, 7:16 PM

Inquisition had 93.8 % uptime.