Paladin Simple Questions: Lost in the Mist - Page 2

Ronark · 01/11/13, 2:36 PM

It would be between 4-5 targets for HotR to pull ahead of Exorcism unglyphed and normal HoW. At 2 targets, HotR/DS overtake CS/TV.

With the possibility of Mass Exorcism, and the reduced cooldown on HoW for additional DS, you could roughly assume it would take 6 or 7 targets for the duration of Sanctified Wrath for HotR to pull ahead again.

Shoein · 01/14/13, 3:18 PM

Sorry, could I have clarification on ret: should I be going for 7.5% expertise or 15%?

Curulan · 01/14/13, 5:53 PM

Expertise caps at 2550, which is 7.5%. The same values apply to Hit.

Exemplar · 01/15/13, 8:34 AM

More accurately: boss level mobs have a 7.5% chance to dodge attacks and 15% chance to parry.

Thus at 7.5% expertise, a boss level mob can no longer dodge when you are beside/behind him. This is sufficient for Ret. If you were to stand in front of the boss, you would still have a remaining 7.5% chance to be parried. This is why you want to stand behind the boss.

Nooska · 01/15/13, 10:21 AM

Even more accurately, Boss level mobs have 7.5% chance to dodge and 7.5% chance to parry. Expertise takes away dodge first, then parry, so the first 7.5% expertise leaves just the 7.5% parry, which you can avoid by being behind the boss.

Ronark · 01/15/13, 12:13 PM

While we're at it, having 7.5% Expertise and 7.5% Hit will also obtain15% Spell Hit for Boss Level mobs.

The first 7.5% of Expertise caps you for Dodge, but any expertise will give you the game percentage of Spell Hit and Parry reduction-- This is critical for Protection to ensure that their Holy Power generators are never missed, dodged, or parried.

Lacroix · 01/19/13, 2:56 AM

After just religiously gemming because my stats are 2 haste > 1 str I find myself at a 490 ilvl. In simulationcraft haste has become 1.5 > 1 str, but when I switch between hit/haste pants and my tier legs the value of haste fluctuates drastically from 2 > 1 Str to 1.5 > 1 Str. What I'm asking is, in the ret guide on these forums it states haste will only become better as ilvl rises, but at this moment it looks like haste (in my gear at least) will lose out to str sooner than later. I also simmed a pally with a 502 ilvl from my server and his simulationcraft value of haste was lower than mine. at what point do we gem str instead of haste; Is it when point of gemming str instead of haste. Has this happened to anyone else? Is the statement about haste only need to be defined as if 2 haste>1str then gem haste and if 2 haste < 1 Str gem strength that cut and dry?

Anvilandy · 01/26/13, 5:51 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

As I haven't personally experienced this issue, I'm inclined to say it's not a global issue with WoW or Ret Paladin. You clearly state you do not always have this issue - at least some portion of the time this problem does not exist and your DPS does not suffer. As such, I would try to track down what is unusual when it does occur.

Does this only occur during peak times (such as early evening local-time)? This could be your ISP (de-)prioritizing packets, essentially creating network lag specifically to WoW (a tunneling service could resolve, if true).

Is it more in 25s than 10s or 5s? If so it's probably spell effects. Especially if this started to occur right after a video driver update (new is not always better). Try dialing down the graphics or even rolling to an older version of the video drivers. Even top end video cards sometimes have issues. Remember WoW is over 7 years old. How they handle graphics and how cutting edge video cards handle graphics aren't always ideally compatible.

If not the above and more or less random, try disabling various mods. If you can normally get this to occur every LFR, then turn off every single mod and run an LFR mod-naked and see if it occurs. If no issue without mods, then you can start the long process of tracking down which is the culprit. Comparing what mods you use to your friend could help narrow down the common possibilities.

First of all, thanks a lot for the complexe answer...

Let me go through it one step at a time.

I cannot tell when exactly it happens, because there simply is no pattern. It can happen all the time in our raiding time from 1830 to 2330.
Also, the 2 people are suffering from that, are home in seperate parts of europe. We got switzerland and Germany.

Where does it happen? Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post, but it only!!! happens in 25 ppl raid - so mainraid or lfr. But i have never faced the issue with my restoration shaman on lfr... this just keeps me thinking its the paladins fault in particular.

About the video driver - I have this problem now for the time of like 3 or 4 nVidia software updates wich I all got immediatly on release day... having a new one did not influence the issue in any way either better or worse.

And about the addons... I will try out what you said, but I do not think, that this is the reason. I only use deadly boss modes, bartender, weakauras and tidyplates when I'm raiding by a total of 64 gigabyte of RAM. All four are really mainstream addons and they get updated very frequently so I do really think, there is nothing wrong with them - but i will check what you said anyways.

---

So I guess what I am trying to say is, even though it is highly appreciated, your answer does not seem to solve my problem at all...

Maybe it is interesting, that in the few bosses that I have to tank (stone guards hc, unsok hc, shekzer hc and lei shi hc) the issue does not occur.

No matter what I do, all points to the retribution spec really... and i am getting pretty desperate.

It just sucks, because as soon as one of us has this proglem, there are like 15 - 30 k dps between two ret paladins with equal gear who usally are appart the ammount of 1 or 2 more TV crits :S

Exemplar · 01/28/13, 8:29 AM

Originally Posted by Anvilandy

I cannot tell when exactly it happens, because there simply is no pattern.

Where does it happen? Sorry for not mentioning that in my original post, but it only!!! happens in 25 ppl raid - so mainraid or lfr. But i have never faced the issue with my restoration shaman on lfr... this just keeps me thinking its the paladins fault in particular.

Based on your response, I'm inclined to a diagnosis of visual effects slowdown. As a Ret you are in melee range, staring at the boss with a billion spell effects hitting it. 25man/LFR becomes incredibly worse as the spell effects are more numerous. As a Resto shaman you don't have your nose in the boss's hindquarters with visuals taking up 3/4 of your screen with every single particle/detail being rendered. It might not seem like much, but it's an extremely common cause of game lag.

I recommend turning all video settings to the lowest possible, run an LFR and see if it's any better.

Anvilandy · 01/29/13, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Based on your response, I'm inclined to a diagnosis of visual effects slowdown. As a Ret you are in melee range, staring at the boss with a billion spell effects hitting it. 25man/LFR becomes incredibly worse as the spell effects are more numerous. As a Resto shaman you don't have your nose in the boss's hindquarters with visuals taking up 3/4 of your screen with every single particle/detail being rendered. It might not seem like much, but it's an extremely common cause of game lag.

I recommend turning all video settings to the lowest possible, run an LFR and see if it's any better.

Ok I'll try out what you say but like I mentioned already, I spend lots of money into my computer to keep it as modern as it gets, and so many people with like average PC's and 30 FPS in 25 man encounter do not have those lag issues.

But i will try, since something has to cause the entire issue at all... thanks for your respond again.

edit: well I just thought of something else-> you said, its because in melee range, all these effects and stuff happen. How come, its only when I'm dpsing, and not when tanking? and it also happens in fights, where there is not really much of aoe effecting from the boss...

but like I said, I will still try what you suggested!

duebasta · 02/13/13, 8:10 AM

Not sure if this will help or not, but I found when I was looking for some lag issues that only happened on my ret pally that where my graphics were set and my refresh rate of my monitor was the cause. You can have the best built computer in the world but if your monitor's refresh rate isn't also top notch it will seem to lag you out when your really not, because it won't keep up. Check it out, I got a new better monitor and my issue went away.

Traison · 03/14/13, 5:11 AM

Hey I was wondering, is it better to use:
1) AW+GoAK, AW, AW, AW+GoAK and delay the next GoAK for 1 minute to line up with the 4th AW.
0min AW GOAK
2min AW
4min AW
6min AW GOAK

2) Or is it better to go AW+GoAK, AW, AW+GoAK there fore delaying the AW by 1 minute to line up with the 2nd GoAK.
0min AW GOAK
2min AW
5min AW GOAK
7min AW

3) Or lastly, just use them all on CD ASAP.
0min AW GOAK
2min AW
4min AW
5min GOAK
6min AW

This is something that I really haven't been able to find any info on, I am pretty sure its not the 3rd as that just seems like a big waste, and I am kind of leaning towards the 2nd one as it gets the big CDs out faster. Might it depend on fight length? Sorry if the question is kind of confusing :\

Charybdis · 03/15/13, 11:03 PM

Cooldowns are usually best used such that you're not wasting them. Don't delay a CD if it means you'll get one less use of it during an encounter, unless the situation there would mean that you'd get a much bigger benefit. For example, if you could use AW twice, but couldn't line it up with a +200% damage phase both times, it is probably best to line that single use up because it will grant a bigger benefit damage-wise than using it twice but not with the buff.

If you only get to use GoAK twice during a fight, and there are no notable encounter-specific times to save it, you're probably better off with your first situation of delaying it a minute. It will greatly depend on not only the encounter, but how your group does the encounter too.

BentBlyant · 03/16/13, 10:03 PM

^^^^^

What he said. My opinion is that you take the encounter time (roughly) and based on that you estimate x GoAK and line up as many AWs and other CDs as you can.

nbartley · 03/17/13, 12:52 AM

Alright, simple question.

If a prot paladin is appropriately setup to be hit cap, with quite a bit of expertise, as per askmrrobot, should their effective damage be pretty poor unless they are in a raid situation where they are taking damage?

Reason I ask. I have an offspec prot set. It's at about 468 or so (should be active on my armor right now). As that level goes up, I find I do less and less damage in a dungeon as compared to any of the other tank types I have seen while dpsing. Unless there is a good pile of trash to pickup, I'm scoring abysmally low on dps, which is frustrating.

Can anything be done to increase my damage, or is this just a case where I need to L2P a bit more....