World of Logs Analysis (Help me not suck thread) - Page 2

Fierss · 11/16/12, 11:10 PM

On the CS vs J comparison: I often have J come up just a tiny bit before CS. If I cast J first, following the concept of "hit whatever comes up first", they will continually clash together, with CS being delayed. So in this specific situation, I wait the 1/10th of a second and cast CS first and go on my merry way until they clash again a little bit later. I just want quick confirmation that going with my gut here is the correct move.

Gloryrider · 11/17/12, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by Fierss

On the CS vs J comparison: I often have J come up just a tiny bit before CS. If I cast J first, following the concept of "hit whatever comes up first", they will continually clash together, with CS being delayed. So in this specific situation, I wait the 1/10th of a second and cast CS first and go on my merry way until they clash again a little bit later. I just want quick confirmation that going with my gut here is the correct move.

It is. Has been pointed out in both the prot and ret forums before. CS > J, even though CS hits for less hard.

The cooldown of J is 6s, CS is 4.5. A GCD is 1.5s. I'm leaving haste out of the equation here since it lowers the cooldown AND global cooldown of both abilities (thus cd on CS will always be 3 GCDs, the one from J always 4 GCDs).

Because of this, when J and CS clash in your rotation, and you choose to do J first and right after that CS, CS will happen 1.5s later than your J, and thus they will both have 4.5s left meaning that 2 fillers later the 2 abilities will clash again.
By doing J > CS again, you are using CS on an effective cooldown of 6s (and judgment too).

Putting CS in front of J will result in less clashes and thus more total casts over a fight and less empty GCDs.

However, i'm not sure if there are exceptions to this, if you are generating your 5th Holy power on that clashed GCD (either with J or with CS), the 2 options will turn out something like this:
CS > 5HoPo TV > J > CS > ...
or
J > 5HoPo TV > CS > ? > J > CS > ...

Someone of the ret-math geniuses will have to figure out which would be generaly better, since Exo and HoW (during AW/execution range) have to be taken into account as well.

Kwayver · 11/18/12, 11:41 PM

Has anyone factored double jeopardy into J vs CS arguement?
This glyph proves useful for a few fights in MSV (guardians, gara, elegon, will of emperor)

Exemplar · 11/19/12, 9:07 AM

CS v J - the simple form
Both CS and J are off CD. You can use either.

Scenario one: J before CS.

GCD	Usage	Conflict?
1	J	Yes
2	CS	No
3	Something	No
4	Something	No
5	J	Yes
6	CS	No
7	Something	No
8	Something	No

Continue to prioritize J and you delay CS by one GCD every single time (1/3 of a CS). In 8 GCD you had 2 CS and 2 J.

Scenario two: CS before J.

GCD	Usage	Conflict?
1	CS	Yes
2	J	No
3	Something	No
4	CS	No
5	Something	No
6	J	No
7	CS	No
8	Something	No

Same 8 GCD and you've managed 3 CS and 2 J. You delayed J only once (1/4 of a J).

Simple math:
Lose 2/3 CS vs lose 1/4 J

Double Jeopardy:
Lose 2/3 CS vs lose (120% * 1/4) J
Lose 2/3 CS vs lose 3/10 J
(Hint - 3/10 is not quite 1/3.)

Minimize your loss - put CS before J.

You eventually have another conflict where both J and CS are off CD, but losing 1/4 of a J infrequently is a lot less of a loss than 1/3 of a CS every 4 GCD.

Chibe · 11/29/12, 6:04 PM

Details for Chibe - 28-11 19:23 - Sin - World of Logs

Details for Chibe - 28-11 19:23 - Sin - World of Logs

Details for Chibe - 28-11 19:23 - Sin - World of Logs

For some reason I have really low hps considering my gear

Chibe @ Darksorrow - Community - World of Warcraft

Would be nice if someone could tell me some pointers =)

Fierss · 11/30/12, 1:55 AM

I had a few gear questions. I can evaluate gear normally, but these are counter-intuitive results, and I didn't want to clutter the main Ret thread asking about it.

From my sims, I see the 502 H Elegon gloves and the 502 H. Will pants both beating the 509 tier pieces for those slots (barely, ignoring the tier bonus). I also see the 502 H Elegon weapon beating the 496 Shin'ka with a +500 str Sha touched gem.

Charybdis · 11/30/12, 3:01 PM

Counter-intuitive does not necessarily mean incorrect since there are many things about WoW that aren't "intuitive." For the gloves and pants it shouldn't be surprising or counter-intuitive because the Elegon and Will items are almost perfectly itemized for us with hit/haste. The tier gloves and legs are expertise/crit and expertise/mastery, respectively, so not as strong as the off set items. If you're looking at the item level difference, half a tier is definitely within the boundaries of a better itemized but lower level item trumping a worse itemized but higher level item.

The weapons difference is more difficult to identify, but it's entirely possible that the extra weapon damage on the 502 Starshatter and slightly better itemization with expertise/crit instead of mastery/crit on Shin'ka means it pulls ahead despite the extra strength with the gem on the latter.

If you think there's a legitimate problem with the way SimC (if that's what you're using) evaluates the items then you're always welcome to open an issue at Issues - simulationcraft - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting.

If you're wondering about the results from Exemplar's spreadsheet then ask him about it through PM.

Astrothebe · 12/14/12, 4:29 AM

how important is youre weapon damage? i have a ilvl of 484 and i am only pulling about 55-60k dps and i currently rock a 463 wep..

OFC pushing harder when there are strange buffs etc. but i think its really low..

Astróth @ Auchindoun - Community - World of Warcraft

and here is my logs

Dashboard - 13-12 19:35 - adult swim - World of Logs

Konke · 12/14/12, 5:33 AM

Weapon dmg is the highest dps increase at the moment with 4set t14 and with good trinkets (lei shi and xuen for example)

Exemplar · 12/17/12, 8:42 AM

Quick glance at my spreadsheet says that 70%+ of our damage is impacted by weapon damage (autoattack, Seal, Censure, CS, etc). So, yes, weapon damage will vastly alter your overall DPS. Weapons have historically been, and remain, the single largest DPS upgrade for DPSers (casters see a huge jump in Spellpower on their weapons).

Until you have a good weapon I highly recommend burning your bonus coins on Elegon and Sha (or their LFR versions, as necessary). As has been pointed out, a normal Starshatter can beat an LFR Shin'ka (or Heroic Star beat normal Shin'ka), though race has an impact (humans get the expertise bonus on swords).

TheXFamily · 12/18/12, 2:01 PM

Consistently 90-99% of rank limit. Never quite there. Hoping this community will be able to poke around and find a flaw in my performance, perhaps I am missing something fundamental.

Parses:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Armory:
Xilit @ Exodar - Community - World of Warcraft

Any feedback is appreciated.

Icharispally · 12/20/12, 4:52 PM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

Quick glance at my spreadsheet says that 70%+ of our damage is impacted by weapon damage (autoattack, Seal, Censure, CS, etc). So, yes, weapon damage will vastly alter your overall DPS. Weapons have historically been, and remain, the single largest DPS upgrade for DPSers (casters see a huge jump in Spellpower on their weapons).

Until you have a good weapon I highly recommend burning your bonus coins on Elegon and Sha (or their LFR versions, as necessary). As has been pointed out, a normal Starshatter can beat an LFR Shin'ka (or Heroic Star beat normal Shin'ka), though race has an impact (humans get the expertise bonus on swords).

Astroth,
I noticed in your world of logs a couple of issues that are impacting your DPS. I reviewed that data from you final attempt on the Blade Lord as this was your longest attempt at 8:13. In your Buff Details under Buffs cast you will note that your Inquisition is up only 84% of the time. That needs to be closer to 98%. Also your second most frequent buff is Sacred Shield with an uptime of 55%. Casting SS this often is a DPS loss as you are not doing any DPS.
The other thing i noticed was that you only used your Hammer of Wrath 9 times (Buff Details, Buffs Cast, Power gains). Given that you cast Avenging Wrath 3 times, you should have more Hammer of Wrath casts.

bromli · 12/24/12, 7:50 AM

98% uptime on Inquisition is impossible on Blade Lord, due to the tornado dodging phases. 84% might be less than perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as Icharis would have you believe. 90% may be attainable, but there are other factors. Letting Inq fall off during blade tempest might be a gain depending on ability cds.

Sacred Shield can be cast during unseen strikes, during phase 2 running, and during blade tempest. Additionally, depending on what's happening with your healing team it might even be worth refreshing at the expense of dps while on the platform in phase 2. Reasonably high uptime on SS isn't that hard to get.

9 HoW, on the other hand, is a major issue. During normal stand-still dps, with SW talent, you should get at least 9 HoW during a single AW.

BentBlyant · 01/14/13, 9:03 PM

Just wanted a quick checkup. Downed Windlord first time today and since I have no reference, just wanted to see if there were any things I could improve on:

Logs: Damage Done - 14-01 20:26 - The Sheep who say Nii - World of Logs

Armory: Bentblyant @ Saurfang - Community - World of Warcraft

Thanks

Metasaigneur · 01/21/13, 1:11 PM

@BentBlyant

Try to maintain censure on the boss for the whole fight. I personally run with SoR until we kill the first set of adds (even on heroic) and switch back to SoT right before recklessness, in order to have a 5-stacked Censure on the boss right before it gains the debuff so that I don't lose heavy ticks, but it's up to you to run with SoT all along

.

Try a macro like :

#showtooltip
/startattack
/cast [@boss1,mod:alt,nodead,harm][nomod]Judgment
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Boss1 should be Mel'Jarrak at all times in normal mode.
If you are going for heroic soon, due to the repop of adds, it may be re-arranged and boss1 may become the fresh Menders set of adds. So you are better off with an extra button with a macro like :

#showtooltip
/tar wind lord
/startattack
/cast Judgment
/targetlasttarget
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Given this, you should go for the "glyph of double jeopardy" to maximize your target-switching with judgment to maintain censure up. I noticed you specced into Selfless healer and threw 5 FoL in total. 3 of them were during your strength procs, which you might want to avoid. Besides, you ran the boss with a 3 healers composition so that shouldn't have been necessary. Try to spec into Sacred Shield and cast it only for the rains of blades and kor'thik strikes on yourself (along with a glyphed divine protection). That should save you some lost GCDs and improve personal damages taken

Maybe it is a bug on WoL but I don't see you using your pre-pull potion.
That's about anything I can say here.

I have a request of my own for Lei Shi 10man normal mode :
I've been running with SW as my L75 talent since I have 4p, but wasted my wings often on adds or during hide. So I tried HA and had a better use of my CDs, while being aware about the boss's life for protect, and DBM's timers for specials.
All in all, I lost a full use of my CDs (3 casts instead of the 4 possibles uses) due to avoiding wasting them.
Should I use them on the add of Protect anyway ? What are your opinions on Divine Purpose for this fight ?

Another question about Lei Shi. WoL considers DPS(e) for rankings and during hide, we can't do anything to dps the boss. Should we be spamming hands (freedom, sac) and/or emancipate to virtually keep our active time up ? Maybe it is selfish, but seeing my 86k DPS drop to 65K DPS(e) makes me wonder what I can do to avoid it.

Here are the logs : Details for Metasaigneur - 16-01 20:56 - Redefined Classics - World of Logs

Armory is in my profile.