 |
03/20/13, 11:41 PM
|
#181
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Just wanted to see if I could get some people to chime in here on a few things.
First, with the new tier bonuses. I'm really reluctant to drop my T14 4piece for off pieces of current raids and the T15 pieces. I'm struggling with deciding if it is worth it to go with the new 2pc and higher stat pieces.
Second, I was discussing trinkets with the other main healer in my raid and he mentioned that the proc bonuses will be tied to how much haste you have. Does this mean that we should now be pushing again for the extra tick haste cap and is it still 25%?
My raid group is slow on progression so it is unlikely that I will see my T15 set bonuses any time soon but I want to be prepared for when it happens.
|
|
|
|
|
03/21/13, 2:17 PM
|
#182
|
|
Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Area 52
|
Originally Posted by Zunda
Just wanted to see if I could get some people to chime in here on a few things.
First, with the new tier bonuses. I'm really reluctant to drop my T14 4piece for off pieces of current raids and the T15 pieces. I'm struggling with deciding if it is worth it to go with the new 2pc and higher stat pieces.
Second, I was discussing trinkets with the other main healer in my raid and he mentioned that the proc bonuses will be tied to how much haste you have. Does this mean that we should now be pushing again for the extra tick haste cap and is it still 25%?
My raid group is slow on progression so it is unlikely that I will see my T15 set bonuses any time soon but I want to be prepared for when it happens.
|
The RPPM trinkets do get a bit more uptime from higher haste, but chances are you'll still favor mastery and spirit more since even with the extra trinket uptime they're going to be better stats usually. Depends on your healing style.
If by extra tick you mean another tick on Sacred Shield, then the spreadsheet I made here can answer that. Sacred Shield's extra ticks come every 20% haste after the first, which is 10%. Eternal Flame, however, is every 10% after the first tick which is at 5%. So it can be 25%, and the haste required for that assuming SoI and the 5% raid buff would be 3496, maybe going up to 3500ish due to rounding.
The 25% haste breakpoint is actually fairly decent even without factoring in EF. It gets you to 2 seconds flat on DL and HL and 1.2 seconds on FoL and the spell GCD.
Breaking T14 4p is definitely going to hurt, and that goes for everyone. If you're on AoE healing duty though, using 2p T14 and 2p T15 might work pretty well instead of 4p T14 since the 50% extra healing from Daybreak is larger than the 33% reduction to HS's CD.
It might be worth it to break 4p T14 and got with off set pieces and T15, it might not be. When you do get the pieces, try it out and see which works best for you and your raid. That's about the best that can be done really since healing is such an odd beast. Again, that'll go for pretty much everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
03/21/13, 7:57 PM
|
#183
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Just to make sure I understand the haste capping properly.. This first extra tick of Eternal Flame happens at 5% haste? Then the second one at 15% and the third at 25% correct? I'm going to play around with my reforging and at least bump my haste to the 15% cap as right now I'm reforged out favoring mastery.
Is there a point where our mastery plateaus? I remember once seeing something that a mastery bubble could not exceed X% of a tanks total health pool.
Thanks for all that info, it really helps.
|
|
|
|
|
03/21/13, 8:10 PM
|
#184
|
|
Glass Joe
|
Illuminated healing will cap at 1/3 of the paladin's HP, but the more mastery you have, the quicker you will get to that cap.
|
|
|
|
|
03/22/13, 7:54 PM
|
#185
|
|
Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Blackrock
|
Originally Posted by Jiggaman508
Illuminated healing will cap at 1/3 of the paladin's HP, but the more mastery you have, the quicker you will get to that cap.
|
Roughly, if we take the Paladin to have 430k hp and 35% Mastery, nearly 406k healing has to be done to a target to cap Illuminated Healing on a target at ~142k. That equates to about 3 Divine Lights (rough guess) which is a lot of time and mana spent on a target who isn't taking damage that whole time.
|
|
|
|
|
03/23/13, 2:05 AM
|
#186
|
|
Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Area 52
|
Originally Posted by Zunda
Just to make sure I understand the haste capping properly.. This first extra tick of Eternal Flame happens at 5% haste? Then the second one at 15% and the third at 25% correct? I'm going to play around with my reforging and at least bump my haste to the 15% cap as right now I'm reforged out favoring mastery.
Is there a point where our mastery plateaus? I remember once seeing something that a mastery bubble could not exceed X% of a tanks total health pool.
Thanks for all that info, it really helps.
|
Correct, EF's extra ticks come at 5%, then every 10% after so at 15%, 25%, etc. If you ever go for SS instead, those numbers are there too.
The spreadsheet I made accounts for buffs though, and to reach the 15% all you'll need is Seal of Insight active with the raid getting the Spell Haste 5% buff. That already puts you past 15% since the haste effects are multiplicative. Going up to 25% though would be about 3500 haste assuming you have SoI and the raid buff up.
Mastery plateaus will only happen if you're doing easy content or get a massive healing buff. The easy content of course would require no stat redo because it's probably not worth it. The massive healing buff fight might be worth trading some items around for, but if your only option is reforging then you probably shouldn't bother unless it's a progression fight on the cutting edge and you're willing to spend that much gold to eke out a few more percent.
|
|
|
|
|
04/01/13, 2:51 PM
|
#187
|
|
Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Blackrock
|
Extrapolating from my napkin math, you will need to achieve a rough mix of tripled healing and/or ~100% Mastery to hit any sort of Mastery plateau while casting Divine Light. We are only likely to see this during Tsulong or Primordius or a similar gimmick fight. Considering the random occurrence of buffs during Primordius, there isn't much point in dropping Mastery or any other stat while hoping to pick up a compensating buff.
On Tsulong, Mastery was very helpful for everything except healing the dragon during Day phase. Sadly, dropping it for other stats didn't do much for our burst - which was more about proper timing, casts, and buffs. Paladins and, especially, Disc Priests were generally worse off as boss healers due to their absorb mechanics.
|
|
|
|
|
04/09/13, 4:13 AM
|
#188
|
|
Glass Joe
Goblin Warrior
Zenedar (EU)
|
I like the term napkin math. Let me tell you what my toilet paper math indicates about tier sets.
2 set T14 + 2 set T15 = 31% throughtput increase and 36% mana cost increase over 4 set T14
4 set PVP = 30% throughtput increase and 55% mana cost increase over 4 set T14
or
4set T14 = 5% more efficient over the (2 set T14 + 2 set T15)
4set T14 = 16% more efficient that 4 set PVP.
Well, judging from the lower item level of the pvp gear, and the fact that there are no upgrades, it seems that PVP set is not going to be of any use in PVE any time soon. It would result in getting oom fast.
2 set T14 + 2 set T15, gets more attractive as spirit from gear increases, or in small duration fights. 4set T14, does not scale well with spirit from 522 gear but it is still very useful in long fights.
4 set T15, seems very strong, and althought I have not done any calculations about it, I am pretty sure it will result in a serious upgrade over T14.
For those who refuse to drop their 4set T14, I would suggest to drop spirit from their gear in favor of throughtput stats especially mastery and intellect. I do not mean jems, i mean the use of the so many ToT drops (items with mastery but without spirit) over 5.1 BiS gear (spirit+mastery).
|
|
|
|
|
04/10/13, 6:16 AM
|
#189
|
|
Von Kaiser
Tauren Paladin
Twisting Nether (EU)
|
I just got [Courageous Primal Diamond] but it seems to suck compared to [Revitalizing Primal Diamond] due to the not that awesome proc rate and short, easily wasted duration given how many free spells we already have?
Last edited by Rrui : 04/10/13 at 6:44 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
04/10/13, 1:42 PM
|
#190
|
|
Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Area 52
|
Originally Posted by Rrui
|
The short duration and spacey proc do seem, at first glance, to hinder it a bit compared to the Revitalizing. However, if we do assume it procs 1.4 times per minute (it's 1.4 RPPM, so possible with their new proc fixes to prevent long times without a proc) then it'll be equivalent to 5.6 seconds per minute. Assuming we cast 3 FoL in that time (possible with a HoPo spell mixed in), then that's 68040 mana saved that minute, or effectively 5670 Mp5. If it's 2 DL during that time then it's 43200 mana saved, or 3600 effectively Mp5.
If it's simply used on 2 HL though, it's 7560 mana saved, or 630 Mp5. A single DL would save 21600 mana for 1800 Mp5.
If it manages to proc even once a minute, it should be comparable to or even beat the Revitalizing in terms of mana savings (and the Int on it handily beats the crit bonus from Revitalizing). The issue is actually noticing the proc go up to make use of it via DL, FoL, or HR, but that can be done via an aura addon.
Can you test to see whether it procs on EF or SS ticks?
|
|
|
|
|
04/11/13, 12:24 PM
|
#191
|
|
Von Kaiser
Tauren Paladin
Twisting Nether (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Charybdis
Can you test to see whether it procs on EF or SS ticks?
|
Seems to not, I did proc on application but not on the ticks. Having actually raided with it last night it seems "ok", but I did find it frequently wasted during times of lots of instant cast specs doing lots of EF / LoD usage and found it impractical to react to the proc and make us of it in a 4s duration.
Seems pretty good when lots of hard casting is happening, so reasonably situation. Then again changing it all the time would -suck- so I will most likely stick with it, simply because I am a lazy bastard.
|
|
|
|
|
04/12/13, 11:52 AM
|
#192
|
|
Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Area 52
|
MMO-Champ seems inclined to think that all specs that get a boost to their mana (a la Holy Insight) will be getting a 300% boost instead of a 400%.
It is a proper +400% since our base mana is 60,000 and it goes up to 300,000 while in Holy spec. Becoming +300% would put our mana at 240,000. I've seen nothing on MMO-C to show that other classes are getting their natural mana taken down from 300k, nor am I seeing us (or any low mana class) getting a boost to our base mana to 75k to put us back at 300k if the change goes through. Hopefully it's just wonky datamining, but some of the info is here just in case Blizz decides to do something with it.
Edit: It looks like the change was crossed out and a link given after it: https://twitter.com/holinka/status/322765810756116480
Apparently it's a "tooltip fix," which is oddly nonsensical since base mana is still 60k while improved mana is 300k, thus there's simply no way to get 300% out of it.
Last edited by Charybdis : 04/12/13 at 5:58 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
04/16/13, 10:24 AM
|
#193
|
|
Glass Joe
Human Paladin
Blackmoore (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Rrui
From the latest 5.3 PTR notes, nerfs to T14 & Mastety and a buff for Daybreak.
|
It's not a buff to daybreak, it's more a force to switch to t15 bonuses
|
|
|
|
|
04/17/13, 10:36 AM
|
#194
|
|
Glass Joe
Night Elf Druid
Ysondre (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Rrui
From the latest 5.3 PTR notes, nerfs to T14 & Mastety and a buff for Daybreak.
|
Points of view may differ.
I actually see it as a nerf to daybreak (only slightly compensated by adding more versatility), and a nerf to our overall absorbs resulting in a small increase of the value of mastery rating.
Regarding daybreak, the big change for me is that per HR cast you only increase the next holy shock by 75% (while it is 100% currently on live). Of course in the new version, you can chain cast HR more and still benefit from the daybreak gain for 2 casts between each HS instead of 1. I am not sure we will have the mana to do that consistently, but it might prove useful now that the CD on HS is back to 6 sec.
Regarding our absorbs (illuminated healing), if I read the notes correctly, they only reduce the fixed part which does not depend on mastery rating. This is just a flat nerf to our overall healing, but the part which is due to mastery rating should remain the same and thus contribute proportionally more to our overall healing than what it does now.
Last edited by Kertor : 05/13/13 at 8:59 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
04/17/13, 12:31 PM
|
#195
|
|
Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Malygos (EU)
|
Originally Posted by Kertor
Regarding our absorbs (illuminated healing), if I read the notes correctly, they only reduce the fixed part which does not depend on mastery rating. This is just a flat nerf to our overall healing, but the part which is due to mastery rating should remain the same and thus contribute proportionally more to our overall healing than what it does now.
|
Apparently on PTR, mastery scaling was reduced from 1.5% per point to 1.25% in addition to the straight 2% decrease. I can see no buffed part to it 
|
|
|
|
|
|