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Old 10/10/12, 1:28 PM   #46
Highmeh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Is anyone seeing Stay of Execution behaving weirdly with regards to haste?

It was my understanding that Stay of Execution is not effected by haste (via Dedralie over at Healiocentric). However, I toyed with it on my break and noticed that I was coming up short on ticks; I expected to see 10 ticks, but I was only getting 8. Granted, I only tested this a handful of times because my break is limited (I will doing some more extensive testing tonight), but I wanted to know if anyone else had encountered this behavior.


Nevermind; I was simply miscounting.

Edit: I need to proofread what I write more thoroughly. >.<

Last edited by Highmeh : 10/10/12 at 7:38 PM.

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Old 10/10/12, 9:53 PM   #47
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Sutekhi View Post
This is correct, for the longest time as a paladin I've always favored intellect as my playstyle allowed for constant mana regen. Right now I'm sitting at 13.5k Regen and I was going oom in 25 man LFR.
Intellect no longer has any regen value because it's not used in the spirit equation anymore and since it doesn't increase mana it doesn't increase the returns from Divine Plea or a Blood Elf's Arcane Torrent.

If no one is up for it, I suppose I could put together a list of how things work in general as well as what's changed since Cataclysm.

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Old 10/11/12, 9:45 AM   #48
Highmeh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by Charybdis View Post
Intellect no longer has any regen value because it's not used in the spirit equation anymore and since it doesn't increase mana it doesn't increase the returns from Divine Plea or a Blood Elf's Arcane Torrent.

If no one is up for it, I suppose I could put together a list of how things work in general as well as what's changed since Cataclysm.
I was debating this, but I only just switched from lurker to poster here on EJ. I'm not sure I have enough clout to post a guide here, despite being a long time reader and player. :X

Last edited by Highmeh : 10/11/12 at 10:00 AM. Reason: My writing professor would be so angry at me if she read my posts.

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Old 10/11/12, 1:14 PM   #49
jfiend13
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Turalyon
Never been a big poster on here but I was trying to figure out haste cap...I'm going spirit>haste>=mastery>crit and seems to hold up well in 25s. Keeping up with the OP Druids just fine. But everything shows mastery over haste but I feel in later raiding haste will still want to be priority. I almost always socket spirit gems now. Raid buffed I'm around 28.5%haste (4905 hate rating with most dungeon heroic and some raid epics) and about 25% mastery. Mana regen seems fine. With divine purpose procs its not a problem on mana if you get bad procs sometimes it sucks. LoD is awesome now. Im gonna keep with haste for a while maybe Try out mastery over haste. But my main purpose was finding haste cap. So then I can focus on mastery. Greatly appreciate it!!

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Old 10/11/12, 2:14 PM   #50
Highmeh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by jfiend13 View Post
Never been a big poster on here but I was trying to figure out haste cap...I'm going spirit>haste>=mastery>crit and seems to hold up well in 25s. Keeping up with the OP Druids just fine. But everything shows mastery over haste but I feel in later raiding haste will still want to be priority. I almost always socket spirit gems now. Raid buffed I'm around 28.5%haste (4905 hate rating with most dungeon heroic and some raid epics) and about 25% mastery. Mana regen seems fine. With divine purpose procs its not a problem on mana if you get bad procs sometimes it sucks. LoD is awesome now. Im gonna keep with haste for a while maybe Try out mastery over haste. But my main purpose was finding haste cap. So then I can focus on mastery. Greatly appreciate it!!
Get enough haste until you feel comfortable.

As an example (and a more direct answer to your question), I'm aiming for at least 3506 haste rating, which is ~25% haste with raid buff. This puts all the main cast-time heals at just under 2 seconds (anything longer than this feels too slow to me), and happens to coincide with the 3rd tick of Eternal Flame. From there, I've been reforging to Mastery.

Edit: Fixed the haste rating; I was a few points off.

Last edited by Highmeh : 10/16/12 at 6:18 PM. Reason: Missing words and fixed numbers.

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Old 10/11/12, 6:12 PM   #51
jfiend13
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Turalyon
Thanks! I was thinking the same anything over 2 sec feels to long which is why I always choose haste over mastery. Mines like 1.96 cast at that high of rating so I could probably reforge to mastery a bit. Thanks for the input!

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Old 10/12/12, 5:24 AM   #52
Skiny13
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Vol'jin (EU)
Hi,

How come haste is no longer the best stat before mastery?
Of course Mastery is great, "Illuminated healing" is always top 3 healing done, but i'm casting at 2.1sec while raid buffed.
Is that not too long? In term of HPS, how to determinate whether more Illuminated healing, or spellcast will be higher?

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Old 10/12/12, 1:28 PM   #53
Highmeh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by Skiny13 View Post
How come haste is no longer the best stat before mastery?
Of course Mastery is great, "Illuminated healing" is always top 3 healing done, but i'm casting at 2.1sec while raid buffed.
Is that not too long? In term of HPS, how to determinate whether more Illuminated healing, or spellcast will be higher?
Mastery has one big advantage over haste in that it's very mana friendly; you are getting additional "healing" (absorption shield) at no mana cost (where as with haste, more casts = more mana). And absorption/damage prevention has the benefit that it can't "overheal" in the traditional sense; as long as the target is still being dealt damage, the shield will prevent additional damage, meaning less healing is necessary on the target (which means you can follow up with a cheaper heal). This is important since, for the moment, "mana matters."

Cast time is also important however (if you can't get the heal in before your tank dies, the shield is meaningless) so as I said before, get enough haste until you are comfortable. Note that "comfortable" means you are getting the necessary healing to the right targets in a timely manner while not running out of mana. For me, that's at least 25% haste raid buffed, but it might be different for you, so experiment a bit.

As far as a throughput breakpoint for haste vs. mastery, that is entirely situational and hard to quantify from my understanding, and I haven't spent enough time yet in raids to even guess at this.

Last edited by Highmeh : 10/12/12 at 1:34 PM. Reason: Spelling, word choice, and redundancy.

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Old 10/12/12, 5:11 PM   #54
Charybdis
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Healing stats are such that your playstyle will tend to make the most difference in how you value stats, and as such you shouldn't look at which might be arbitrarily better but instead look at what benefits your playstyle the most then go for it.

Trying to get empirical stat values for holy (and most other healers I'm guessing) is simply mental masturbation. Yes, this is a theorycraft site, but the fact is there are different ways to heal effectively and enough different encounters that one single way won't work for all of them. Because of that fact there will not be a clear winner or even priority that we can use in enough situations to reliably say "gear this way and you will win."

Last edited by Charybdis : 10/12/12 at 5:18 PM.

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Old 10/13/12, 7:06 AM   #55
Baretank
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Dalaran
While I would recommend Mastery over Haste due to the mana issues holy pallies have early on, if you do choose to gear for haste in any amount, I would recommend one of the following breakpoints:

- 503 for a 9th tick of Light's Hammer
- 2,025 for a 6th tick(proc?) of Sacred Shield

After those two, the next relevant breakpoint isn't until 5,558 at which you get a 10th tick of Light's Hammer. However, not only is this nearly unattainable with current gear, it would also be incredibly stressing on your mana pool.

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Old 10/14/12, 6:28 AM   #56
Rrui
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Paladin
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Baretank View Post
While I would recommend Mastery over Haste due to the mana issues holy pallies have early on, if you do choose to gear for haste in any amount, I would recommend one of the following breakpoints:

- 503 for a 9th tick of Light's Hammer
- 2,025 for a 6th tick(proc?) of Sacred Shield

After those two, the next relevant breakpoint isn't until 5,558 at which you get a 10th tick of Light's Hammer. However, not only is this nearly unattainable with current gear, it would also be incredibly stressing on your mana pool.
Got the maths in a viewable spreadsheet? I have 1646 haste at the moment unbuffed and I'm getting the Sacred Shield (apsorb part) 6 times, the 6th is coming literally as SS itself falls off.

Last edited by Rrui : 10/14/12 at 7:23 AM.

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Old 10/14/12, 5:04 PM   #57
Sparty
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Rrui View Post
Got the maths in a viewable spreadsheet? I have 1646 haste at the moment unbuffed and I'm getting the Sacred Shield (apsorb part) 6 times, the 6th is coming literally as SS itself falls off.
Maths of Pandaria: Healer Haste Breakpoint Cards - Blogs - Totem Spot

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Old 10/15/12, 11:13 AM   #58
Highmeh
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Note: Light's Hammer and Execution Sentence don't actually scale with haste, so ignore those on the table. Light's Hammer should always be 16 ticks, and Execution Sentence should always be 10 ticks.

Edit: I left a note for Binkenstein (author of the tables linked above and an overall brilliant theorycrafter) to update the holy paladin one specifically for the level 90 talents, so you should see those removed from the table at some point in the future.

Last edited by Highmeh : 10/16/12 at 6:32 PM.

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Old 10/19/12, 6:57 AM   #59
LunaSaint
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Shadowsong (EU)
I've noticed an interesting buggy interaction with Hammer of Wrath and Holy Avenger. HoW generates 2 holy power while HA is up, as if the spell generated 0 hp in normal situations. This isn't the case with Judgement, either.

But considering that HoW costs next to no mana, this looks like a useful way to squeeze out that extra bit of healing during some of the more intense parts of encounters.

Examples in the current tier where you'll want to use HA and HoW is available:
Gara'jal's frenzy, Elegon (all kinds of opportunities thanks to adds), Spirit Kings on heroic, too.

Almost certain it is a bug, though. Can't expect this interaction to last.

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Old 10/19/12, 2:27 PM   #60
Rrui
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Paladin
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Why would you use HA though?

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