Exactly. There really aren't that many fights in BT where someone can go from full HP to dead in under 2 seconds... it's not like Brut. So, go into every fight assuming that for whatever reason, the other healers aren't doing their jobs. As long as you end the fight with "some" mana left, you need to maximize your HPS no matter what. That means casting HL... not relaxing with a flow of FoL's that won't require you to chug a mana pot ever. I'm not sure what kind of druids you guys have in your raids, but ours generally pump out more HPS than anyone else. In fact, we really don't have anyone that's relegated to "just" spamming "quick" heals in any way, shape or form.

I'm in a new Sunwell guild in wich I'm getting alot of hate from other healers that play and don't play paladins because of my choice on haste. I've provided WWS for my previous raids in wich I've been successfully top 3 consistantly per boss fights and over all. Wich I feel they have not looked at. I'm just looking for some feedback on how I should go about explaining the benefits... Also all the other paladins have 5/8 or 7/8 T6 mean while I only have 3/8 plus badge / hyjal gear. I've only done one Black Temple raid with this new guild in wich from my WWS I placed 3rd overall.

Holy Light = 2.5 - Lights Grace is not impacted by haste, so 0.50 sec reduction is added on top of your haste bonus.
Flash of Light = 1.5 sec
Holy light Coefficient = 71.43% of base +healing
Flash of light Coefficient = 42.86% of base +healing
Flash of light rank 7 = 458 - 513 healing
Holy light rank 11 = 2196 - 2446 healing

Holy light coefficients with +healing
Coe / +healing = Holy light spell
1357 / 1900 = 3553 – 3803
1428 / 2000 = 3624 – 3874
1500 / 2100 = 3696 – 3946
1571 / 2200 = 3767 – 4017
1642 / 2300 = 3838 – 4088

Flash of light coefficients with +healing
Coe / +healing = Flash of light spell
814 / 1900 = 1272 – 1326
857 / 2000 = 1315 – 1370
900 / 2100 = 1358 – 1413
942 / 2200 = 1400 – 1455
985 / 2300 = 1443 – 1498

1% haste = 15.76 rating
Rating = %reduced = cast time of Flash / Holy light
50haste = 3% = 1.45 / 1.92
100haste = 6% = 1.41 / 1.85
150haste = 9% = 1.36 / 1.77
200haste = 12% = 1.32 / 1.70
250haste = 15% = 1.27 / 1.62
300haste = 18% = 1.23 / 1.55

60sec @ 1.50sec Flash of light = 40 Flash of lights = 53040 healing @ 1900+healing
60sec @ 1.50sec Flash of light = 40 Flash of lights = 59920 healing @ 2300+healing
60sec @ 1.23sec Flash of light = 48 Flash of lights = 63648 healing @ 1900+healing
60sec @ 2sec Holy light = 29 Holy lights = 110287 healing @ 1900+healing
60sec @ 2sec Holy light = 29 Holy lights = 118552 healing @ 2300+healing
60sec @ 1.55 Holy light = 38 Holy lights = 144514 healing @ 1900+healing

Obviously there are other stats to consider but I mainly wanted to focus just on +healing vs haste since my gear has lower healing on it to benefit my taste for haste/ play style and this is the main problem I'm facing is that they are saying my +healing is lacking ALOT because of the haste.

Spell damage coefficient - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Casting speed - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

This seems pretty spot on to me. I think that if you are doing nothing but FoL, that whether said chaining of FoL would provide a steady flow of healing or not, you are not healing to the maximum of your potential and thus, requiring others to pick up the slack. I would not bring a paladin to a raid that was putting out the kind of HPS put out by one spamming nothing but FoL. It's not worth the spot and it requires more healers/other healers to work harder. Why not just have all of your healers(paladins included) working to the best of their abilities and bring as few as possible?

Stigmada, usually the assumption is that you have the option between crit and haste when socketing. All else created equal they will yield similar raw hps gains when you model them, with crit giving the added benefit of regen. What you can't model accurately, is the value of that faster heal in a raid healing/reactive healing situation. Most paladins in the BT+ level gear can spam HL 6-8 indefinitely, so adding a bit of haste at the cost of crit can be a very effective boost to your healing if mana is not a concern. I'd say if you can reach 30% holy crit rates then at that point its safe to start gemming for haste. Personally my goal is to get around 170 haste(which is a flat 10%) while maintaining 100+mp5 and 30% holy crit.

So I just picked up the last piece of t6 loot I really need, Memento of Tyrande. However, I'm having some difficulty deciding what my second trinket option should be. Right now, I have Essence of the Martyr, Lower City Prayerbook, and the 40 haste trinket sitting around.

I know haste is supposed to be pretty good in Sunwell (we've killed Kalcegos twice, taking an effectively enforced break from Sunwell due to healers taking vacations in droves about this time, in the meanwhile clearing MH and BT and gearing up new people), but I understand that it doesn't become truly important until Twins on? Another complication is that I'm using Rawr to judge most of my gear options, but it doesn't seem to account for click usages, which would really point out how strong LCPB when you put it in a macro with all your other heal spells so it has virtually 100% uptime, or Essence's use for burst.

So basically I'm wondering what paladins who are currently in Sunwell would consider the best counterpart, mostly for eventual Brutallus/Felmyst learning: 40 haste, 84 healing with +297 / 20 seconds clicky, or 70 healing with -22 mana cost on spells / 15 (which I estimate is worth approximately 308 mana saved a minute at 14 casts, assuming effectively chaining HL7 and going to HL11 during Stomps). I suppose I could also look into the 40 crit badge trinket (and sort of wish I had a Sextant at the moment).


Also in regards to gemming: A week or so back I saw a thread on the official paladin forums where a paladin from Vis Maior said that Luminous Pyrestones are incredibly bad and one should be using 10 spellcrit/haste in yellow sockets exclusively. What are opinions on Pyrestones versus Lionseyes? I have Pyrestones currently in my MH/BT gear, and was planning to do Lionseyes in any Sunwell gear yellow sockets, but I was wondering if I should regem my MH/BT gear.

Well, you would definitely want 40 haste trink on felmyst for extra survivability (it is like extra HS off HS CD). It saved me many times there. For Brut it's either haste or mp5, you should decide for yourself when you try him for a few times with both trinkets.

Resocketing old gear is hardly needed, though you should socket new SWP gear keeping in mind fights like Twins-Muru-KJ. Haste/crit gems is the best choise in yellow slot there.

Hey guys, I'm a raid leader who is usually pretty hands off on paladin talent specs, since honestly they confuse me just a bit. It seems like there are lots of "neat" talents that "might" be helpful in raids. And whenever I try to have talks with my pallys(who refuse to pick up imp LoH), they berate me with reasons other talents are better and used more often.

They say they almost never use LOH, and other things like "% to take less dmg" end up being more useful in raids. Yet I see every pally on here with imp LOH, and its in the main builds on the front page.

So does everyone just use LOH more then my pallys? Or is the few times you use it just worth more then the other talents?
If you could just give me some help in explaining these things to my pallys that'd be great, thank you.

Imp loh is a very important tool, as long as the person using it knows what they are doing.

The key to using it is to try and use it with as little mana as possible and most importantly your pot timer has to be up so you can continue healing. Imp loh is sort of situational depending on group make up and your healing style. If your paladins are flash of light healers they should barely use any of their mana so using an imp loh to dramatically reduce dmg on your tank would be very beneficial b/c you can just pot and have enough mana to keep on casting for a long while. Another situation is if your paladins get a sp, if they are hl they will have to be smart with their mana mixing in more flashes than normal with their rotation and downranking a little more until they feel that they are at a mana lvl they can maintain while going back to a normal rotation.

One big example is brutallus. I've had our prot pally almost break out in tears of joy b/c i worked imp loh for the last 2 minutes of the fight. Since without a sp its quiet common to drop down to a low amount of mana anyway i just used loh with ~2:15 left on the fight and he was set stomps had a much smaller effect on him. The only tank I can see not getting any benefit from imp loh are druids b/c they are so close, if not already at, the armor cap already.

As someone above me said, imp loh is not something you should plan around. But if you are situationally aware and able to adapt your mana consumption to adapt to the situation imp loh can be a lifesaver.

As for your pallies saying their is a better choice than imp loh, I've saved the raid from a wipe infinitely more times with imp loh than I would have with some fear resistance.

I would very strongly recommend dropping Mining for Alchemy to grab the epic healer trinket. There's really no reason to have a gathering skill in place of it and once you see the difference it makes it'll probably become your favourite trinket. I use it alongside the Memento for Sunwell, which I swap out for the haste PvP trinket on Twins. Unfortunately I have to tank three fights in SWP but if I was healing them I wouldn't want to use any other trinkets.

There are no fights where it's impossible to kill the boss without imp loh.

I also feel it's an extremely difficult ability to use effectively and it's good they are reworking it in woltk. If you use it when you *think* a tank was about to die mid way through a fight you may have saved a wipe however you've effectively gimped yourself for the rest of the fight and most likely it could result in a later wipe due to many of fights in Sunwell requiring you take the minimum healers possible and every healer does maximum hps in order to meet the dps requirements.

People who do pvp and pve will tend to take the fear resist instead and people who have a pure pve build will take imp loh generally.

Haste is amazing for holy paladins and anyone who tells you otherwise is deluding themselves. That being said, you have an entire thread here with people attempting to model mp5, crit, haste, our chance to hit against left-handed pitcher's on rainy days in April, and it is almost completely unnecessary. The probability that you will ever notice a difference whether you socket your yellow slots with haste, crit, or Int is insignificant.

Healing is and likely will always be more about intuition than it is about numbers, so use what you feel comfortable with. I personally think haste confers a multitude of advantages, from allowing you to reliably generate more HPS to lowering GCDs that allow you to fit in other things more effectively, like clutch blessings, shocks, or whatever. Other people feel differently. At the end of the day, your position on the meters is almost entirely derived by the healing assignments of other healers, luck, and effort. The class is so absurdly simple at the moment that something like gem choices is minutiae.

I've always liked this talent because LoH is one of the few things paladins can actually use in a clutch situation to feel like more than just an FL/HL spammer. That being said, if really isn't that important anymore. I would still recommend getting it for a pure healing build (especially over fear resist - I can't believe someone is actually comparing the value of those in a PvE environment), but it isn't that big of a deal.

Now in the expansion, it has awesome potential with the lowered cooldown and removal of the stupid mana dump.