I just went to the PTR, because i was curious about the change to [Libram of Absolute Truth] - actually it got buffed a lot, it now reduces the mana cost of Holy Light by 84! Thats more then 3 times the previous value... amazing
I also checked on [Libram of Mending] - only the duration has been changed, it will now last for 30 seconds.
The [Libram of Souls Redeemed] will now only add 60 to FoL but 120 to HL.
I think i will use the Absolute Truth one a lot more often, when 2.4 goes live.
I have really enjoyed reading this thread, It has the best information that I have found for Lvl. 70 Paladin Healers.
My guild is just getting started on ZA, and we don't have enough members to do 25 mans yet. As a result all of my gear is S2/S3 Arena and honor gear.
I started Playing WOW after BC came out, so I am definitely not the most experienced healer in the world.
That being said, I am curious about the Changes to Spell Haste and the GCD in patch 2.4.
I have read all of the calculations and statements that have been posted in this thread about spell haste, however they are all based around PVE healing. (SSC and Raids Later in the Progression)
My questions are with regard to arena PvP
How much would having 10% spell haste effect paladin healing in the arena? Will spell haste be worth sacrificing other Stats Like Spell Crit and MP5?
It seems to me that being able to throw out heals faster would be a significant advantage, as it would increase the amount of healing you could do in a given period of time, and also make you more difficult to interrupt.
Can anyone shed some light on this subject for me?
P.S. The addition of Spell haste on Badge Rewards perhaps is indicative of how important Blizzard thinks Spell haste is/ will be. Does anyone Know if there are any plans to put Spell haste on the S4 sets?
Libram of souls redeemed change is pretty minor imo.
It isn't much of an overall nerf if you use HL about half the time, but if you are a Flash spammer it is a difference of 45, that seems pretty large.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
Does that not make Souls Redeemed worse then the blue from Nagrand (sorry name escapes me)? I think the FoL value was fine seeming it required BoL active, making it a MT healing only buff for most guilds. Certainly a buff to the HL value was warranted though.
Amazing changes for the HL spammers on both librams, and will make me search for those libram switching macros again.
Assuming I cast a conservative 10 HLs in 30 seconds, going from my current using Absolute Truth for every one to Mending to trigger buff then Absolute Truth for following 9.
Mana saved/30s before: 10 * 27 = 270.
Mana saved/30s after: 22 * 6 + 9 * 84 = 888.
Mana Cost: 191
Average Heal: 1935
HPM: 10.13
HPS: 967.5
versus
Flash of Light VII
Mana Cost: 180
Average Heal: 1727
HPM: 9.59
HPS: 1151.3
Alright, I'm mostly a flash healer and with the recent changes to haste reducing global cooldown I started going after some haste gear to try to maximize my HPS since mana is not an issue.
I could use some help figuring out what would be better (considering a gearset focusing on +heal and haste):
Option 1:
Flash spam with the Libram of Souls Redeemed
Option 2:
HL5 spam with the Libram of Absolute Truth
Remember also that the HL would have 10% more chance to crit than my FL considering talents and 2-piece T6.
I'm thinking that HL5 would actually be better because of the increased crit chance AND the fact that haste reduces the HL cast time by a lot more than the FL cast time.
What do you guys think? Could anyone run some math on that?
so this is a stat that increase healing output a lot more than +crit or +heal, but also increase mana spent.
So i see 2 possible uses of spellhaste.
1-u spam FoL rank7, u have endless mana, so u wish to increase ur output healing, and u know u wont go oom anyway.
2-u stack spellhaste, then u downrank FoL to not run oom too fast. So u'll heal will be faster and smaller. U wont run oom cause u downrank, ur HPS will be good cause u cast fast.
Now, first way doesnt require a lot of spellhaste, basically u get spellhaste until u feel u are running oom too fast.
Second way requires load of spellhaste: u have to downrank a spell, and if u downrank without a good amount of spellhaste, ur HPS will decrease a lot.
So my question is: in ur opinion, is the second simply stupid, is it viable or is it "the future"?
i would like to know if i have to run ZA and eroics to get badge to take spellhaste item
Book of redeemed souls being -45 to FoL and +15 to HL is kind of a crappy trade off. If you're a 50% FoL/50% HL user, you lost 30 HPS on your FoL, and gained 7.5 HPS on your HL.
With the duration on the Libram of mending changed to 30 seconds, it'll probably be worth swapping librams with a downranked HL. You can get upwards of 100 more mana per minute (50 more mana over 30 seconds for casting 1 HL with mending instead of truth).
Sounds like rank 5 HL is probably the new order of the day. What's the down ranking penalty for HL5? Haste might be a better method of increasing HPS than +healing since it isn't penalized.
[e]
Originally Posted by cammauta
So my question is: in ur opinion, is the second simply stupid, is it viable or is it "the future"?
i would like to know if i have to run ZA and eroics to get badge to take spellhaste item
You may want a balance of the two. Haste to increase HPS, but not to the point you're not able to keep up mana-wise. And balance really relates to how your party is set up for you (spriest, resto shaman, both, neither).
Last edited by Zraknul : 02/11/08 at 12:22 PM.
Reason: Removed statement that was corrected.
Libram of Souls Redeemed is still better than the other Librams which increase healing done by Flash of Light. You have to remember that the healing provided by the Libram of Souls Redeemed is a flat increase to the healing done and only involves the downranking penalty for it's coefficient, while the other Librams which do not rely on Blessing of Light use the standard spell coefficients. With Flash of Light getting the usual 1.5 second coefficient it means the Libram of Light is only 35 healing extra on Flash of Light, versus the 60 from Libram of Souls Redeemed.
I always thought librams that "increased healing done by X spell by Y" also ignore the coefficient. At least I'd agree they're horrible if they don't.
Change to libram of mending makes it probably worth it to swap in when you do your low rank HL to keep light's grace up, however since it lasts for 30s doing it excessively often (aka spamming downranked HL as your way to heal) is still not worth it, as in that case the libram is the same as it was before.
Since libram swapping with libram of mending is just as effective for FoL spamming as it is for HL spamming, it doesn't affect wether you should HL or FoL spam.
Since FoL is still more HPS and about the same efficiency as HL, you should probably keep that as your "everything is going fine" heal. Regardless of which heal you use for that purpose, you will use higher HL ranks to heal burst damage etc, for which it's very hard to argue in favor of libram of absolute truth (especially if you often use max rank HL and want to max your HPS for those situations) especially with the souls redeemed HL buff - it's that many more HP on that tank that is going to die. If you have to HL a lot to the point where mana is an issue, though, absolute truth becomes more useful, however fights generally aren't based around healers spamming max rank heals as no gear/raid/etc setup will be able to keep your mana up for such a fight.
Souls Redeemed seems to ignore coefficients, including downranking penalties (or so it seems from my quick little "throw 5 heals on myself" test I'm doing right now).
The downrank coefficient for HL V is about .586, so you get about 42% of your bonus healing (same as FoL VII).
And because it bears repeating one last time:
Holy Light downranking is not spam. You adjust ranks according to how much healing is required at that moment. if you enjoy mashing one and only one key, stick with FoL.
One thing worth mentioning is that spell haste affects Holy Light more than FoL. At a 2 second cast time, HL gets marginally more time reduction per point of haste than FoL. Getting a theoretical 10% haste would bring your FoL cast time to 1.35 (-.15) seconds, whereas Holy Light is brought down to 1.8 (-.2) seconds. Its small, but when you talk about the effective maximum haste (33%) Your FoL is losing .5 seconds while your HL is dropping almost .7 seconds. Not a huge deal, but worth mentioning.
10% haste is 10% haste. It doesn't matter what spell you're using now that the GCD is a non-factor - you will cast 10% faster, and thus the better HPS spell will remain the better HPS no matter how much haste you stack.
As for HL I think we agree that when more healing is needed you use higher HL ranks, but I see no real reason to use HL5 more than once every 15 seconds to refresh light's grace. FoL is about the same efficiency with quite higher HPS, and the HPS of FoL is already low enough I doubt you'll want to go any lower anyway especially when the efficiency gain is quite minimal. When you want bigger heals you don't use HL5 either, so the "I don't only spam 1 spell" doesn't apply when you try to decide what to use as your lowest heal.
And in the same token, I see HL V as a clear substitute for FoL VII. The extra HPS can be made up for by bumping up to rank VI (which has higher HPS than FoL but slightly lower HPM after the libram change). It all comes down to playstyle. What this does prove is that downranking Holy Light can be just as efficient as FoL spamming, which was the huge boon for that specific heal-style.
Again though, we're never going to agree, so instead of you responding to every one of my posts with the exact same thing lets just drop the issue. Please. We're clogging up the topic.
Last edited by flyingtoastr : 02/11/08 at 9:49 PM.
I have been looking at the on use effect of Vial of the Sunwell and I was wondering... wouldnt this be a great addition to paladin healing? You are the only class without the benefit of some sort of instant heal (aside from a 1hr cooldown that uses all your mana and a bubble that drops aggro). I know the passive effect of 15mp5 isn't THAT great, but have any of you though about using this? I know a heal for 2000 isn't much.. but assuming your +healing factors in.. wouldn't this be a great paladin substitute for Nature's Swiftness? There seems to be no cooldown on this item besides how fast you can get heals out. I would find this on use effect infinitely more useful than some +healing effect (By the time you know you REALLY need the +heal its too late). Although I already have NS, this trinket would be so great for clutch heals I can't even describe. Just rank 1 twenty times before boss pulls or after the trash which you use it on and you're golden.
What are all your thoughts?
P.S. Sorry for the item link. The databases do not have this item yet (as it is new in 2.4)
Vial of the Sunwell does look great for a class that doesn't have a great instant heal (Shock's coefficient is too low and LoH is one time use), plus 15 mp5 is great.
My Pally has Libram of Light and it only gives 36 extra healing done by FoL. The Kara libram gives the full tooltip amount and it used to be bugged to apply without BoL.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
ok i have read alot of this thread and now seeing blurred vision and a head ache. lol
But i have something i would like some help with.
my guild is only just into SSC lurker pretty much on farm and moving on to others in the next week. finally get resist sets made.
but my stats were like
healing - 2069
base crit - 17.5
casting mp5 - 54
mana pool of 11k
this above is unbuffed stats.
now im bouncing around between dropping healing for crit or mp5. before a week ago i was just stacking +18healing gems. i had gained a lot of healing for about lose of 3% crit. and not much change to mp5. I gained Za mail headpiece over T4 helm.
in the last week i have dropped the 3 18 heal gems in my chest peice for +8 crit gems.
and crit and also changed back from using Za mail helm to T4 helm as it has more crit and using the S3 hands over T4 hands. though S3 not enchanted yet.
my stats now looking like
healing - 1920
base crit - 19.7
casting mp5 - 54
mana pool of 11k
now i guess im stuck on should i go more mp5 or should i go more crit. or should i just stack healing and stay spamming flash with odd HL?
i dont downgrade my spells just spamm FoL 7 with occasional HL 11.
so what things should i change and spells use to be more mana efficient and better healer?
on a side note as well i was using the int and mana regen meta on T$ but due to gem changes it stopped working. so i now have the 26 healing one in.
I have been looking at the on use effect of Vial of the Sunwell and I was wondering... wouldnt this be a great addition to paladin healing? You are the only class without the benefit of some sort of instant heal (aside from a 1hr cooldown that uses all your mana and a bubble that drops aggro).
We have Holy Shock...which is an instant cast healing spell most paladins pick up because its on the way up to 41 point holy talents. With 2100 +healing it heals for around 1600-1900ish for me. At a glance this item seems useless except for conserving your mana. If your that desperate for mana, your probably setup in the rest of your gear wrong. If this didn't activate global cool down, it might be interesting. I doubt it functions like that, however.
After examining all the sunwell gear (well, the gear that's been posted anyway), I put together what would be my ideal set: chardev.org - A World of Warcraft character planner v.2.beta (Note: the site hasn't been updated with the tier 6 belt, but that would be my ideal belt slot).
If you look, the only pieces of tier 6 I have would be bracers, belt, and boots as the other 5 pieces are all upgraded in sunwell. I would really like to keep my 4 piece bonus, but it seems really hard to drop one of these for tier 6.
Currently I have 4/5 tier 6 (all but helm). I was thinking of maybe keeping the t6 chest over the blacksmith crafted one just for my 4 piece.
Divine Illumination: The mana energize from this talent no longer has a chance to set off other triggered effects.
Will this take [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] off the pedestal as the premier holy meta gem?
Secondly, With the changes to spell haste; would [Quick Dawnstone] and [Forceful Talasite] be worth investing in? I am currently in t4 content so I don't have allot of other spell haste available (at least at the moment). If spell haste is worth stacking, is it only worth focusing on if you can get a significant amount?
I don't believe it will ever be sensible to stack spell haste, except for specific encounters where you know that mana will not be a problem. However there are some nice spell haste items around now, which offer good mp5 and healing, and are worth going for, namely the BT trash ring and the new sunwell haste gear. Currently I use 11heal 5int in my yellow sockets, so I will most likely replace those with 10haste.
With regards to the meta gem, the changes will probably reduce the mp5 value by a small amount, but we're still looking at 10-20mp5(including the nerf) vs 26heal.
02/10/08, 7:02 AM
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