The Healadin Thread - Page 2

illepic · 10/11/07, 3:03 AM

I understand that this is probably the wrong thread to really get into the meat of this particular discussion, but our raid places very heavy preference on DPS classes to receive Salvation, above all other buffs, even Kings. The working theory is that a higher aggro ceiling directly translates into higher dps across the raid. Classes like Enhancement Shamen and DPS warriors have no inherent aggro control, so Salvation truly does allow them much more room to open up before reaching tank threat cap (well, according to Omen). If we're stuck with only a single paladin in raid, it's Salvation across the board except on tanks! Just food for thought

Touf · 10/11/07, 4:30 AM

Maybe not across the board, but DPS warriors, enhancement shamans, and ret pallies (moonkin?) will absolutely want salvation as their single buff.

crimsonsentinel · 10/11/07, 4:47 AM

Pretty much any dps class without an active threat dump probably could use salvation before other buffs. Unless your tank is just haxxing =P.

• Zurm · 10/11/07, 8:54 AM

Agreed on most points, but since it is still different for each raid depending on the tank/dps, I said that I would not include salv for any class other than warlocks (simply because there is no truly amazing blessing for warlocks, a few work but none really are put to great use).

Thordarsen · 10/11/07, 10:50 AM

Good Post, I have a minor quibble though.

Originally Posted by Zurm

The HL Setup: (useful stuff about healing with holy light - but heavily weighted towards vashj+ or T6 gear levels)

The FoL Setup: (good stuff about FoL, but makes it sound like HL is an oh shit heal instead of a semi regular cast)

One thing about this post in general is that its aimed towards all paladins, and the ones who will find the most use out of it are those who don't have access to the haste gear, 4T5 or 2T6. High end paladins can use this thread - but by the time they are killing T6 set piece bosses they should have the major kinks worked out and are nitpicking details. But HL or mixed spell setups are still viable before then. At 2/4TK, 1/6SSC Holy Light healing has to be a major part of my routine - not pure HL, but a rotation of FoL and various ranks of HL (11/9/5) since FoL can't keep a tank upright alone, unless you have a lot of help. Personally my gear set is a mix of +heal, Crit and MP5 (partly by choice, partly because those are the itemization options I've seen)

So basically I'd look at rewording the setup section to not make it look like using Holy Light regularly isn't viable before killing Vashj.

• Zurm · 10/11/07, 11:04 AM

Good point. While I personally was an FoL spammer until I got to hyjal/bt (ah, Naj'entus was a fun wake up call!), I didn't stay open minded. I will edit this accordingly after I put some thought into my wording.

Thanks for the input!

• promdates · 10/11/07, 11:18 AM

Quick update on the gear sheet... I went through last night and took out the majority of the cloth/leather items from atleast 5-6 item slots and added in the Season 2 gear. I also removed the non-dmg/heal items (i.e. tanking and ret dps gear), and all level 60 gear with a few exceptions. So somethings went from 100+ items to about 20-25.

If I have farm content tonight, I should be able to go through and finish it up tonight while raiding.. if not, I'm off work tomorrow and will have it completed by then.

• Zurm · 10/11/07, 11:28 AM

For the gear sheet, how possible would it be for you to add something that models Meta gems and other special effects, specifically [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] or the equip bonus on [Crystal Spire of Karabor]? Maybe like a 0-1 binary input to say you do have it or not? If you can, keep in mind on the meta its a 2% proc chance to gain 300 mana, but it can proc off illumination as well as a heal (so crits have double chance). Not entirely sure how you would go about modeling the spire since its based on MT hp...maybe allow an input for the number of heals that the tank is below 50% (a percentage input?).

TY if you can, if not thats cool too, I'll try to figure it out as well.

Strategia · 10/11/07, 11:44 AM

Trinkets: There are MANY trinkets you can choose from. There is no wrong answer, but here is a large selection of popular trinkets you can choose from:
...

Is there a particular reason Eye of Gruul or Fel Reaver's Piston are not included? I've debated the usefulness of Eye of Gruul but I'm fairly convinced the Piston is an awesome trinket. Are there better choices I can make or is this simply a plug-into-spreadsheet answer?

• promdates · 10/11/07, 12:27 PM

I thought it was common knowledge that the IED was the best meta... I could have been wrong. I'll see if there's someway I can go about moding that into the sheet.

As far as [Crystal Spire of Karabor], last I checked, I believe it was either 1st or 2nd on the sheet.. again, could be wrong as I don't have access to view the sheet at work atm.

@ Strategia: The Eye of Gruul and Fel Reaver's Pison are both rather decent trinkets. The Piston is looked down as a sidegrade to Shard of the Scale from Onyxia as the HoT doesn't scale with your healing. The Eye isn't too horrible, passive 44 to healing and a 2% chance to lower your cast by 450. Granted, if you're spamming FoL, that's a 2% chance to have a free FoL... which is pretty good, but there are better trinkets than that imo.

galzohar · 10/11/07, 1:23 PM

AND we get mana back from the heals the shadow priests give (as of 2.1.3(?) only if its not an overheal, still amazing on any fight where we take damage to generate more net mana)

I remember reading somehwere that the level taken into account for the downrank penalty formula was 1 level below the level in which the next rank is learned. So if you learn rank 5 at 50 and rank 6 at 60, rank 5 counts as a level 59 spell for that formula.
I think this is worth verifying.

• promdates · 10/11/07, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

I remember reading somehwere that the level taken into account for the downrank penalty formula was 1 level below the level in which the next rank is learned. So if you learn rank 5 at 50 and rank 6 at 60, rank 5 counts as a level 59 spell for that formula.
I think this is worth verifying.

Correct, the level of the spell is the highest level before a new rank is learned. Using yours numbers, the R5 is level 59 since you learn R6 at 60.

• Zurm · 10/11/07, 3:16 PM

Added trinkets and updating the downranking penalty right now.

jusion · 10/11/07, 5:57 PM

"# Crystalforge Raiment: The bonuses on this set have been adjusted."

Uh oh, anyone know what they did?

- Blessing of Light: Lower ranks of Flash of Light and Holy Light are now properly penalized when used with this Blessing.

And ouch even more.

• Zurm · 10/11/07, 7:39 PM

Update:

As of today (Oct 11, 2007) the PTR patch notes reflect two major changes:

1) Blessing of Light will not give the full effect to down-ranked spells
2) T5 Bonuses have been "adjusted"

We are going to need the first few paladins who can on the PTR to test out the extent of these nerfs, and we should get rigorous testing in over the next few days. This may be the end of the HL/Haste build