Rydaa

I think I would do mostly the same, go with bracers/belt/boots for t6, and I would wear t6 chest. That bs chest piece would probably be the smallest upgrade over the existing t6 slots, and imo not worth dropping the 4 piece. (Im not a bs anyways so its not really a decision for me)

Another thing I was thinking of...since although those plate legs would be an upgrade, they did not impress me compared to the other slot upgrades. I also noticed the mail healing legs having + 35 more heal than the plate legs, haste instead of crit and a few less mefs, and was thinking possibly going with those instead. Wouldn't mind some thoughts on that.

 

Imbar

MMO-Champion's screenshot says otherwise, but a 1min is negatable compared to 3min NS CD.

It takes 20 heals cast to charge it to full, and 20 Flash of Light spells take 30 seconds total to cast, so you'd have it charged by the time the cooldown finishes. Regardless of whether or not +heal affects the trinket, a free 2k heal every minute is excellent HPS.

 

galzohar

Trinkets in general don't even trigger the spell GCD so it's even better if this trinket is off the GCD as well.

 

tdevil

I'm going to bet that's coming off the last boss of sunwell.

Not only does this help a paladin's role in burst healing but it makes it that much better for the other insta healers too.

 

beromar

I'm pretty sure it's already been confirmed to drop off the 3rd boss in Heroic Magister's Terrace

 

Kirion

Its from Magister's Terrace, not Sunwell.

42.

 

• alcaras

New(ish) paladin here, looking for a set of Pawn values for Holy... haven't seen an up-to-date set of weights taking into account 2.4's haste changes thus far in this thread.

Here's what I'm using at the moment:

Int 0.38
Heal 1.00
MP5 3.28
Haste 2.91
Spell CritR 1.36

I'm just looking for a simple set of stat weights for a good "general" healing set to help me pick things out as I gear up.

 

Quozzy

Use the paladin spreadsheet, put values into the stats box at the top to see how much of one stat is worth of another. Then divide all the values down so that they are equal to 1heal. To get the weightings just invert everything.

 

• alcaras

The Paladin.xls on the front page? I don't think it takes into account spell haste :-(

If we look at the calculations in this post The Healadin Thread it assigns 1 haste rating = 2.91 AEP, whereas 1 heal is 1 aep (in fact, this is where I got my original haste value from). However, the calculation is done for pure FoL spam, whereas I, like most paladins, mix between the two depending what I'm doing.

If I do take the values from the spreadsheet with my current stats (unbuffed +1500 heal, 103 mp5/combat, 16.73% non-Holy spell crit, 517 int):
3.49 int
10.18 mp5
1.00 heal
2.58 spell crit

And if we (blindly) add in 2.91 spell haste, here's the item ranking that results:
Loot Rank

Is that right? (I'm only listing this for a reference point for those who can't click through)
1. [Nadina's Pendant of Purity] 258.48
2. [Brooch of Nature's Mercy] 254.79
3. [Lord Sanguinar's Claim] 216.71

Note the gaping difference in weights b/t LSC and BNM... I passed on Verdant Sphere last night because I was pretty sure my BNM from ZA was better because of the spell haste, and even with the Spirit on it being -- in effect -- a wasted stat. I think BNM v. LSC is a good "focal point" to tune a spell haste weighting, but I am not experienced to know, at a glance which should be on top, let alone by how much. I humbly await your wisdom.

In short: I'm basically trying to find a good "rule of thumb" number for haste rating so that I can decide on what gear I want to roll on without rolling on everything.

 

galzohar

The spreadsheet has no haste on it simply becuase it calculates how much healing you'd do using all your mana given a certain spell distribution, stats, consumeables, buffs and fight duration. This is neglecting the fact you can be more efficient when you have higher HPS (as well as completely ignoring the burst factor, which cannot be compared to what the spreadsheet shows you anyway as the burst factor is meaningless if you have mana issues and the spreadsheet's efficiency is meaningless if you don't).
For explanations on how to do more advanced calculations to maximize your efficiency and/or HPS: [Paladin] Holy raid itemization for best performance

 

• alcaras

Galzohar, maybe I'm missing something, but the spreadsheet linked in the thread you linked to also doesn't take into account haste.

 

galzohar

Read the thread... The spreadsheet is incomplete.

 

• alcaras

I don't see how the spreadsheet or the thread help me get a single weight to use for spell haste for some quick gear comparisons.

 

galzohar

In case you didn't understand look how much 1/1570 haste would increase your HPS and how much +healing is required for the same increase... Then use the HPS->mp5 conversion value explained there to see the (rather small) efficiency gains. Or if you're just looking for burst then the +healing required to get the same HPS increase is what you were looking for.

There is no "easy stat comparison" for healers. There are too many factors involved and you can't just go to some random spreadsheet click a few buttons and get reaslitically useful results. You need to apply all factors in a fight and decide what you actually want in order to choose your stat prioritization.

 

• alcaras

Thanks, I was just looking for a ballpark figure, not anything particularly precisely tuned.

But your explanation of converting haste<->+heal is helpful, thank you.

My calculations gave me 2.01 points for haste for FoL, and 3.73 for HL. Averaging out (say 50/50 FoL/HL) gives me 2.87 points, which is not far from the 2.91 I was using before.

 

galzohar

Remember this is only regarding HPS and has does not take efficiency into account. If you trade +healing to haste rating at these ratios you will actually keep the same HPS but lose efficiency which is not a good thing. However the value you should actually use greatly depends on how much you value efficiency (and the fact more HPS helps your efficiency due to the lower HPS spells being more mana efficient), but haste is definitely *somewhere* under that value - anywhere between almost the value you have, to the hps->mp5 value of it, depending on your need for mana efficiency.

 

• alcaras

I have yet to run into a fight where I go OOM when I'm chain potting Super Mana Potions with an Alchemist's Stone while having a shadow priest in my group, so would it be safe to assume I don't need to worry about mana efficiency? Shadow priests are plentiful (to say the least) in our guild.

Which fights are the biggest mana-stresses?

 

vorda

Council and Gurtogg.

 

• goss

I'd disagree with Gurtogg - stick your paladins in your bloodboil soak groups, and use a CoH priest + resto shaman for bloodboil healing. Give the priest and shaman an spriest, your paladins will rarely have mana issues thanks to SA. From my experience, its really just Mother w/ bad luck on mana burns thats at all stressful for me. Council might require a pot or two if somebody misses a heal, but thats about it.

 

flyingtoastr

Council is about longevity, but its really not as terrible as people make it out to be if everyone is smart and avoids the AoE as much as possible. Even on the mage tank (chain casting for pretty much all the fight) I only have to pot one or two times on our typical kill. The main fight I have problems on is mother, just because my regen/mana pool is already gimp due to the SR gear and if I get a few burns things start to get hairy. Of course this is somewhat balanced by the large amounts of raid damage being healed by our CoH priest and shamans giving mana returns from SA.

Oh and the one time I had to do group healing on Naj'entus I went OOM pretty quickly as well. But that's not anywhere near a normal fight or paladin role.

 

Shenoir

Want to make sure we're all on the same page here.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are working on the same premise as far as "point values" go, from the first page of this thread, which says:

1 healing = 1 pt
1 mp5 = 4.5 pt
1 int = 2.25 pt
1 spell crit rating = 2.25 pt

Adding in haste to the mix based upon your calculations (1 haste = 2.91 pt), my calculations come up somewhat different that yours.

[Dawnsteel Bracers] 23int, 28haste, 64heal = (25.3(2.25) + 25.3(.35)) + (28(2.91)) + 64 = 211.26
[Blessed Adamantite Bracers] 22int, 21crit, 62+22heal = (24.2(2.25) + 24.2(.35) + (21(2.25)) + 84 = 194.17

That's with a gem that I don't necessarily agree with, given it's point value for overall healing. If you change that with a +10 int gem, then your total for [Blessed Adamantite Bracers] comes to

(24.2(2.25) + 24.2(.35) + (21(2.25)) + 64 + (11(2.25) + 11(.35)) = 202.77

(Please keep in mind that I am assuming both Divine Int and Holy Guidance are maxed)

Much closer numbers..

Comments?

---

Shenoir
Serious Business of Uldum

 

Quozzy

My math has nothing to do with the first page of the thread. It's simply a weighting system for pure FoL spam, which needs to be taken with a pinch of salt regarding which encounter you are on, and your group setup.

This is how the weights are used:

1heal = 1point
1haste rating = 2.91points
1int = 0.385points

[Dawnsteel Bracers] (23*0.385) + (28*2.91) + (64*1) = 154.34
[Blessed Adamantite Bracers] (22*0.385) + (84*1) = 92.47

 

flyingtoastr

Just because it is a change (though it affects nothing since its still a shittastic spell), Holy Shock had it's damage and healing buffed, but also costs a ton more mana now.

 

ojoj

I suppose one is not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but...Do you see yourself using holy shock more after the change?

 

vorda

Dont see it changing much in progression raiding personally. I barely use it for something important, these days I mostley use it to heal someone while moving around out of lazyness (farm raids), and once every blue moon for burst healing, in which case I dont care much about the HPM anyway.