Jiibus

It seems that blizzard is trying to discourage people from getting the 4 piece bonuses for pvp gear and t6 and doing arenas, although it's completely stupid. As someone suggested in the 2.4 thread, a - to resilience stat would do just that and wouldnt affect PVE at all.

 

DarKNecross

Really glad to see some more sCrit added onto our gear - this should put us closer to 20% sCrit unbuffed while still having that sHaste. I think the removal of Stamina is going to be a hot debate topic in every thread here for the next few days - reading the Feral Druid thread proves surprisingly entertaining, though.

http://crimson-guild.com

 

Sumada

Personally, I'm kind of attached to having decent stamina values on my gear for PvE...the new stats are awesome for healing, but a hit of 1000 health is kind of steep. The other sunwell items don't appear to have suitable amounts of stamina to make up for the loss...and even if they didn't, isnt it more efficient (in terms of iLvl) to balance the stamina out between pieces?

It seems like it would be smarter to either go with a PvP-based negative effect like -resilience on sunwell tier 6 if this change is to address using raiding gear in arenas. Or buff season 4 honor gear with some sort of effect that would trump tier 6 bonuses in arena, even.

I'm wondering if the gear will stay like this when the patch goes live, though. It seems odd that they put the stamina on there in the first place just to take it off...

 

Saved

If you give me a site that works for you, I will upload it there. If you still can't see it, PM me and I can arrange to send it via AIM. If anyone else is having a problem with filefront and would like to see it, please PM me.

 

galzohar

FileFactory - free file hosting never failed me, although I doubt you would keep updating on 2 different places

 

wonderfulmetropolis

Hey, just a quick note. I play a prot paladin which I sometimes pop over to holy, but my raiding main is an Enhancement Shaman. Generally Kings is better than Might for us. Any decent raiding Enhshaman is going to gear heavily towards Strength for the sole purpose that it gives us a bigger increase than Might does. For us, 1 Strength = 2 Attack Power.

Just wanted to make a suggestion on such a great post. Thanks

 

• Chicken

Purely for the AP contribution Might is going to be better than Kings by a pretty large margin. The base blessing already providing 220 AP, that means you'd need 1100 strength to get an *equal* benefit from Kings. Obviously Kings has other advantages as well; most notable of which the increase in Agility and thus your chance of getting a critical hit.

If I take a look at the Enhancement Shaman thread on these forums I note that agility is worth about 1.75 EP if we take the average in between the three different tiers. If 20% of your strength and 17.5% of your agility taken together add up to more than 220, then Kings is better for DPS. And that's a value you don't reach even if you were to have 500 strength and agility; and even the best geared enhancement shamans don't have those amounts of strength and agility.

Long story short, for an enhancement shaman, Might is still better than Kings for DPS.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Thetos-DB

I am too lazy to read all 23 pages - I got through the first page and a half then gave up - just want to add my 2 cents to this thread.


I've been a Paladin Healer almost since WoW was released (level to 60 as ret, raid MC as a healer, then progress through BWL/AQ/Naxx as healer - TBC level to 70 as prot, raid Kara/Gruul/Mags/SSC/TK/HS/BT as healer).

Holy Light has *always* been a viable healing spell - it was absolutely godlike pre-Illumination-nerf.

Flash of Light is generally too weak to be used on a Tank (Essense of Desire is one exception). I will generally only use flash of light to heal a raid member (non-tank) who has taken under 2k of damage and has no HoT applied, or, on a raid member (non-tank) who has taken under 3k of damage and has a HoT applied. If I am healing a raid member who has taken over 3k of damage I will generally use a Holy Light rank7 (Essense of Desire is one exception).

For tank healing I use 2 ranks of Holy Light (7 and 11). On a fight like Bloodboil for example, I will spam rank7 holy light on the Tank (with rank11 ready if the tank gets low on health), then switch to rank11 holy light spam on the Fel Rage target - with no shadow priest I will need to chain-chug pots to keep it going - with a shadow priest I might need to take 1 mana pot if any.

Because I have been using Holy Light for years as my primary heal spell, my gear preference is heavily Spell Crit biased. I think I have a grand total of 61mp5 casting unbuffed, yet my spell crit rating is over 450.

The way I see it is this - Flash of Light is a much better spell when used for raid healing (don't heal a main tank with it fools, Essense of Desire is one exception) - Holy Light is a much better spell when used for tank healing - Shamys and Priests should be assigned to raid healing if you're smart, which leaves Palys as the single target healers - which means Holy Light is generally the best spell to use.

 

Arthurious

lets say I have Pendant of the Violet Eye and Divine Illumination

A) so I cast 26 times, using divine illumination and pendant of the violet eye and the same time(the buffs run out at 13 casts but I continue to cast to get a total of 26 casts.

B) I cast another 26 times, using divine illumination and pendant of the violet eye one after the other

if my base regen is 45 mp5, which method will leave me with more mana?

I'm guessing A because for the 13 casts I have a buffer of mana building up so my first 13 casts don't cost any mana(since I have both the trinket and divine illumination up) and my base regen will build up my mana pool. This will make it so my other 13 casts will eat into the mana that was regenerated through base regen and leave my mana pool virtually the same.

So I will end up with more mana at the end of 26 casts than player B will at the end of his 26 casts

 

Secta

From my experience (A) is the better option. However, I'm interested in the result so I wil conduct a small test right now online. I'll try using FoL (Rank7) for scenario (A) and then try FoL (Rank7) for scenario (B).


FoL (Rank 7) @ Method (A)

12 casts | 214 mp used | 2 crits (108x2) = 216 | 214 + 216 = 430 |
~ Over the span of 20 seconds I used 214 mp (430 mp, if no crits) with 12 casts.

FoL (Rank 7) @ Method (B)

21 casts | 1364 mp used | 3 crits (108x3) = 324 | 1364 + 324 = 1688 |
~ Over the span of 35 seconds I used 1364 mp (1688 mp, if no crits) with 21 casts

Now, there's obviously a dead time to add between the casting of trinkets and factoring in lag/response time or w/e. But the objective is to see if one is CLEARLY better then the other. So, let's look at the numbers.

So, what I'm going to do is use the number that we calculated without a crit landing.

Method (A) -- 430mp / 20s = 21.5mp/s
Method (B) -- 1688mp /35s = 48.23mp/s

That should clear up your question, using DI and PoVE together will cost you less mana/second. Also note, that the use on this trinket is significantly better when using FoL. I also experimented with HL (Rank 5) and the results we're not as efficient to say the least, since the objective of the PoVE is casts generating mp/5. With DI being a 3 minute cooldown and PoVE being a 2 minute cooldown, they pair nicely and you should probly use them early in an encounter so that you're in the position to use them again later on.

On a side note, I used Method (A) with 0 mana and spammed FoL (Rank 1) and ended up gaining apprx. 900 mp. I didn't calculate crits or anything, but just some food for thought. If you're in the situation where you're low on mana and can find some downtime (maybe another healer can spot the heals) then it's a pretty good way to gain nearly 1k mana back and that's without raid buffs. I would imagine fully buffed you're looking at a gain of apprx. 1.5k mana or 750 when DI isn't availible. Just spam the rank1 on a Tank and it's equlivent to a nice HoT while you regen mana

For the record, I conducted this test with 119mp/5 while casting and using the blessed book of Nagrand. I did not have the Mana Restore Meta equiped and did my calculations through my combat log and time checks. I'm certain the results are accurate with the exception of not calculating dead time between the trinkets.

 

Arthurious

ty for the data and test, but you would have to do the same amount of casts in test 1 for method A as you had to do for test 2 and method B

doing less casts in test 1 using method A will produce less mana used because you don't cast for an extra 15 seconds

 

Secta

You're absolutely right, I must of misread a portion of your post (it was really late when I browsed it). I may have been sidetracked since I was looking for the mp/s for my own use and forgot to add the math for your question

I'll probly look over it again today.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

Enkor

The two mana regen abilities do not affect each other so what matters is only the spells cast. Don't burn a trinket that favors FoL at the same time as a cooldown that favors HL.

 

Killmour

I browsed over the new mana regen model in 2.4 thread, and was a little blown away. Here's to hoping they give us 100% illumination back.



Intellect -> Spirit Conversion on the PTR : Theorycrafting HQ

 

Kaede

Hey folks!

Currently I'm using a Vindicator's Pendant of Salvation with a Luminous Noble Topaz. Yesterday an Emberspur Talisman dropped from Nightbane and since I didn't have this one on my gear list I was a little torn over the two neck pieces.

While the Emberspur does have more +heal and +int it has draw backs in the way of 340 health and 300 mana. As far as I worked out the 5MP5 would give back the 300 mana over the course of 5 minutes which looks to be good for boss fights. However, I'm sure that the additional +heal factors into this too but I can't think of how.

Can anyone point me down the right track? I'd greatly appreciate it!

 

Braque

The mp5s gain from Emberspur Talisman beats the mana pool from int after 5mins. How much you value +6 heal over 340 health is your call.

 

galzohar

You can't assume you can choose when to HL. You will HL when it's needed, not when your divine illumination is up. If anything, pop your divine illumination when you need a max rank HL. Note that this isn't going into low rank HL vs FoL as they have nothing to do with it - this is about max rank HL and divine illumination combination. Just something to take into consideration so you're not overestimating its effects.

And pendant of the violet eye is just a rather weak trinket. The healing from 40 int and the mana from 40 int and the use effect even if used to full effect without additional cost (aka wasting mana due to casting more than needed) just doesn't beat out the 70 healing and "mana regen" of the prayerbook and definitely doesn't beat the massive healing of the heroic badge trinket, even if you consider far from optimal use of the "activate" ability.

If you want some numbers for these trinkets I'm sure they were done somewhere in this thread for a raw comparison.

 

DarKNecross

There's been a lot of theorizing about trinkets in the Healing Trinket selection thread.

http://crimson-guild.com

 

Blutelf

If you are often grouped with a shadow priest, the additional intellect might result in more effective mana available to you than in the case of additional mp/5 regen.

I also believe that 20 INT are approximately +6 additional heal through the talent that increases +healing by 35% of total intellect which would make the +healing on both necklaces close to equal.

 

vorda

How is that? The only form of regen for us affected by our intellect pool is mana tide. Everything else is not dependant on our intellect.

 

[BP]Mortifer

He meant that int gave you a larger mana buffer to allow for more manaregen from spriest without overflow.

 

vorda

Regen is a completely irrelevant stat when you are on full (or 300 from) mana.

 

galzohar

What you're missing is that the fight duration is independant on your "time till oom". If you can chain cast for 5 mins or 10 mins is completely irrelevent as the fight duration depends on the DPS not the amount of mana you have. Not to mention the "time till oom" would change depending on how much damage the raid takes, making it an even more meaningless value.

 

◊ Shalas

That will only give you more mana if you actually make it down to zero mana, then hit full mana again. Unless you regularly get multiple innervates, that doesn't seem like a very useful scenario to gear around.

 

Mirkael

I was reading the post and playing alittle with the charts and all, but im still not sure about what is the real best way to gear my pally for healing.

The World of Warcraft Armory (My armory link)

My gear right now is balanced between MP5 and Crit, but tends alittle more to crit.

My corncers is about how much stats X = to stats Y.

I raid 90% of the time with a SPriest in my party, and im mostly MT healer. ( But i still do alot raid healing when possible. When MT is at full life, and the fight doesnt have high spike damage. )

To Heal in Hyjal / BT and in the future in Sunwell, should i focus on Heal? Crit? Mp5?

I know that Mp5 is alot more efficient to Flash heal spam, wille crit is by far superior on Holy light.
I know too that Int is a underated stat, and i should stack some of it too.

But im not sure how much i need to stack of each, and what is the best gears for me to look for.

Im thinking about focusing in a 30% Holy crit buffed, and them trying to reach as much as Mp5 as possible, so i can have a descent efficiency to HL the MT and still having a great efficiency when FL spamming. But im not sure that the "hibrid" healing is the best way right now.

What are the top pallys using right now? FL? HL? Mix of both?

Any idea on this level of raiding how much each stats are equivalent to each other?

(Right now my calculations ended on:
1 Crit = 2.5 Heal
10 Int = [ 3.5 Heal 165 Mana + 3 Crit ] or [ 11 heal e 165 Mana ]
1 MP5 = 2 Crit )
Not really precise, i know... Anyone have a link to any chart or calculations for stats equivalence?

Thx. (Sorry by my bad english, not american.)