The Healadin Thread - Page 25

Quozzy · 02/29/08, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by ladenedge

The source is simple enough that I bet almost anyone could adjust the algorithm for their custom needs (like missing librams, etc.).

Yes you're right, I didn't think to check before posting

All I had to do was add in an extra if/else statement, now I have the addon using LoSR instead of the lurker libram.

bsmorgan · 02/29/08, 2:59 PM

Quozzy,

Can you post your changes? Thanks!

Quozzy · 02/29/08, 5:50 PM

Originally Posted by bsmorgan

Quozzy,

Can you post your changes? Thanks!

Just go to the .lua file and find the HL logic code, replace these two lines:

self:Debug("Equipping", LoAT)
EquipItemByName(LoAT)

with

if (self:HasBoL(targ)) then
    self:Debug("Equipping", LoSR)
    EquipItemByName(LoSR)
else
    self:Debug("Equipping", LotL)
    EquipItemByName(LotL)
end

This is just for people that do not have the lurker libram.

Yenadar · 03/03/08, 12:55 PM

Coming to you all for help, and hopefully some answers/suggestions.

I am our guild's prot pally, (5/5 MH, 8/9 BT), and I generally pick up every piece of plate or mail healing gear that would otherwise get DEed, and I am building a decent enough of a stash that I can focus a bit more on various stats, but no mix I am using seems to make any impact.

When I am healing on boss fights (which is a bit more than half of them at the moment) I just spam my FoL, as using HL runs me completely out of mana in approximately 1 minute in a best-case scenario.

Since I don't have the kickbacks the rest of you have, I generally go for every bit of Mp5 on gear that I can, and +int (or +int/+healing) for where Mp5 isn't available, simply to try to be able to last long enough into the fight to keep it from becoming a 24-man fight. Kaz'rogal, as an extreme example, I seriously just run off to the side and sit there to avoid blowing people up. Even using no mana at all and chain chugging mana pots, bubbling a mark, I die every single fight from my own mark. It is so pathetic I always hope no one notices, but I know they do. (Fortunately, I enable them to get to the boss that it isn't commented on, but still). If I put on my SR gear, I resist more marks, but have such a low mana pool, that the end result is the normally the same, and I am still always the first (or only) person to die. I have no contribution to that fight, but really wish I could.

On other boss fights where I heal, they literally count me as 0.2 towards the total number of healers. ("We have 7.2 healers for this, that enough?") That is how bad my healing numbers are. My highest healing % compared with the full time healers ever, was our first Bloodboil kill, and I reached 36% of the healing of the 2nd to lowest, a druid.

Part of it could be a lack of skill, partly a lack of gear, a chunk of it is lack of spec, and I know that offspec I will never hit the healing benefit of a healing spec, but I still think there is something I am missing that would help me be more viable and useful in the fights that I am not tanking in.

For reference numbers, my healing set is +1450 healing, ~150mp5, 10k mana, ~14% crit.

Any suggestions?

◊ Sparty · 03/03/08, 3:43 PM

Really, those numbers should be fine for an offspec healing set. I'm unsure of your healing setup on bosses but you should be able to take it easy as an offspec healer. I'm not sure if you run a Retribution paladin or how you run judgements but your contribution could be to keep one of them up, at least wisdom and flashing the tank when needed.

I would suggest putting some Shadow Resist on for Kaz to resist the marks, you should always be able to resist at least one. I wear the BT Neck, Cloak, Bracers, a Ring to Kaz and come out unscathed. With two mana pots and divine shield, you've negated about 3 marks. You can leave the others to your shadow resist gear, and if you do find yourself dipping lower, just melee the boss to keep wisdom up and your mana regenning. You'll take a stomp every now and then but that will be healed by your shaman and you will regain some additional mana from spiritual attunement.

On Bloodboil, I'm not sure how to help you since I don't know how you do the encounter. You could always volunteer to rotate yourself out for a specced healer if you arent tanking.

Zaran · 03/03/08, 4:23 PM

One additional thing you could consider doing if the raid has enough healers and really doesn't need you healing... If your guild is willing to help you farm an hour or 2 of MC you could get a Nightfall axe crafted. In the hands of a prot pally that does little to no personal DPS on a single target mob the proc can be a pretty decent raid DPS boost.

I've never raided as anything but holy so I can't really help ya with how to heal as prot spec. All I will say is any chance you can dump some crit and pick up some +heal or mp5 I'd go for it.

ohrion · 03/03/08, 4:43 PM

Originally Posted by Yenadar

Kaz'rogal, as an extreme example, I seriously just run off to the side and sit there to avoid blowing people up.

We just downed Kaz for the first time last week and I'm not sure what your raid setup is like so take this with a grain of salt..our prot pally stacks SR gear (around 250ish) and keeps JoW up to give some more mana back to the DPSers.

Yenadar · 03/04/08, 11:45 AM

Thanks for the suggestions. This one in particular is the most outstanding ideal I have heard... I'll start the Thorium Brotherhood grind tonight, and I am sure I can get people to help me out in MC for it.

Originally Posted by Zaran

One additional thing you could consider doing if the raid has enough healers and really doesn't need you healing... If your guild is willing to help you farm an hour or 2 of MC you could get a Nightfall axe crafted. In the hands of a prot pally that does little to no personal DPS on a single target mob the proc can be a pretty decent raid DPS boost.

rpalchau · 03/04/08, 12:45 PM

I was wondering if someone could point me to some information regarding which flasks/foods/oils might be most beneficial to a raiding Holy Pally. I tend to use Mighty Resto, but I have also seen some recommendations to use Supreme Power for the +heal. Also, for food buffs I tend to use the Sporefish over the Golden Fishsticks. And currently I use the Superior Mana Oil as my weapon buff. I apologize if this is covered, but there wasnt any link to a healing consumable discussion in the main post and none of the other posts jumped out at me as containing information regarding this.

vorda · 03/04/08, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by rpalchau

I was wondering if someone could point me to some information regarding which flasks/foods/oils might be most beneficial to a raiding Holy Pally. I tend to use Mighty Resto, but I have also seen some recommendations to use Supreme Power for the +heal. Also, for food buffs I tend to use the Sporefish over the Golden Fishsticks. And currently I use the Superior Mana Oil as my weapon buff. I apologize if this is covered, but there wasnt any link to a healing consumable discussion in the main post and none of the other posts jumped out at me as containing information regarding this.

Whoever recommended Supreme Power should have checked better. Supreme Power - Spells - World of Warcraft (the tooltip should have been obvious enough actually)

For the elixirs, adepts beats healing power in my opinion (though thinking about it, I'd rate them equal), mageblood as second one. I prefer golden fish sticks over sporefish unless the extra hp can come in handy. (I cant think of the last time I had mana issues when I was potting)

Not like there's any choice on weapon oils, the pre TBC one is extremely expensive.

For priests/druids alot changes in 2.4 (the intellect flask becomming the best one, etc), but for us, its the same old.

galzohar · 03/04/08, 1:18 PM

Based on my numers, basically the more regen you have (which is affected, from most to least significant, by having a shadow priest, other raid/party buffs and higher regen/crit on gear), the less you will want regen consumeables and more will you want +healing. That actually makes or breaks the difference between the different consumeables, however it seems in just about any realistic scenarion healing power is the winner. Adept's is only worthwhile if you're going oom with a shadow priest + shaman + pots on cooldown etc, otherwise it's mostly healing power with the rare fight where mighty resto is better. Especially assuming you use major mageblood as your guardian elixir (as there are no other real choices except for draneic wisdom if you really want to just push HPS to the max and ignore efficiency).

zixa · 03/04/08, 1:30 PM

Originally Posted by rpalchau

I was wondering if someone could point me to some information regarding which flasks/foods/oils might be most beneficial to a raiding Holy Pally. I tend to use Mighty Resto, but I have also seen some recommendations to use Supreme Power for the +heal. Also, for food buffs I tend to use the Sporefish over the Golden Fishsticks. And currently I use the Superior Mana Oil as my weapon buff. I apologize if this is covered, but there wasnt any link to a healing consumable discussion in the main post and none of the other posts jumped out at me as containing information regarding this.

Mighty resto for wipe nights
Major mageblood + adepts for tank healing or 50 healing for raid healing
44 healing food
ZG oil-25 healing/12 mp5

galzohar · 03/04/08, 1:36 PM

If you're cheap to only use mighty resto on wipe nights might as well save that 50g and just use 75mp5 major mana potions... Or use nothing at all. When it comes to consumeables, really, the more you think about saving the more you realise you just don't want to use anything at all. So even if I wanted to be cheap I wouldn't use mighty resto (unless guild is swimming with marks of illidari...). But maximizing performance =/= being cheap.

And why would adept's elixir have any special place for tank healing?...

zixa · 03/04/08, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

If you're cheap to only use mighty resto on wipe nights might as well save that 50g and just use 75mp5 major mana potions... Or use nothing at all. When it comes to consumeables, really, the more you think about saving the more you realise you just don't want to use anything at all. So even if I wanted to be cheap I wouldn't use mighty resto (unless guild is swimming with marks of illidari...). But maximizing performance =/= being cheap.

And why would adept's elixir have any special place for tank healing?...

Um who said its being cheap to use a flask instead of 2 elixirs? Depending on server economy flasks can be ~40g at least, and its trading off a bit of throughput for a bit more longevity which would be better for a new encounter Id presume for most people. And Id rather have a whole nother % to crit over 26 healing if Im tank healing.

skullpunch · 03/04/08, 1:56 PM

Great mod, ladenedge!

It's like you read my mind.

Darion · 03/04/08, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

And why would adept's elixir have any special place for tank healing?...

I believe the thought is that spell crit has more value in bursty tank healing than +healing. I tend to use:

Flask of Mighty Restoration
Blackened Sporefish
Brilliant Mana Oil (+25 healing, +12 Mp5)

or

Adept's Elixir
Major Mageblood
Blackened Sporefish
Brilliant Mana Oil

But I tend to max my Mp5 and let my +healing go to where it will. I'm a little surprised by paladins using the Elixir of Healing power over Adept's elixir. The trade off between 24 spell crit and 26 +healing is a no brainer to me. 24 spell crit >> 26 +healing.

galzohar · 03/04/08, 7:51 PM

The efficiency gains from 26 +healing are hardly less than 24 crit rating, while the 26 healing gives "noticeably" more reliable burst. Saying crit is bette for tank healing makes no sense at all - you assume your heals don't crit no matter who you're healing and thus a lot of the crit heals will overheal, and in the cases the person is actually low enough for crit to matter he's probably low enough for you to want the biggest heal possible, crit or not, as if you *need* to crit to have a big enough heal sooner or later (usually sooner rather than later) you'll get a non-crit and the person will die.

Of course this is taking things to extreme for a rather small difference but that's the only way to explain why +healing is reliable HPS and crit just helps your efficiency, and while 24 crit will help efficiency a little more 26 healing will help keeping people alive *much* more (in comparison to the small efficiency loss at least), and if you're really having mana issues you probably don't have a shadow priest in which case mighty resto would provide more efficiency anyway.

And even without a shadow priest I find myself with more mana than I know what to do with on most fights as long as I don't go crazy on overhealing.

vorda · 03/04/08, 7:55 PM

Brilliant Mana Oil

Is there a trick to getting these cheap or so?
I think they cost about 4 (wild guess, cant log in to check) times as much as the superior ones on my server, for a not that hughe healing boost.

Shelendil · 03/04/08, 8:21 PM

Take an enchanter to Strat and wipe the place from top to bottom for shards. It's actually fairly profitable.

vorda · 03/04/08, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Shelendil

Take an enchanter to Strat and wipe the place from top to bottom for shards. It's actually fairly profitable.

You mean, assuming you wouldnt blow hunderds of gold on a minor oil upgrade?

Anyway, each his own. Brilliant mana oil is indeed by far the best oil ingame, no discussion on that.

Davechapally · 03/04/08, 10:23 PM

Though brilliant mana oil may be more expensive then superior mana oil you have to look at it from the raid's point of view. If theres a way to improve yourself ever so slightly, maybe, just maybe a tank won't die with that extra +20 heal. Anything can save a raid, every little thing.

My Raiding Materials:
Food - Golden Fish Sticks
Oil - Brilliant Mana Oil
Flask - Mighty Resto (only for new content)
Elixirs - Adepts/Mageblood (Farm Content)

Now I've heard a lot about people stacking on the spell crit, but I need to know what someone else currently thinks about my gem choices. Normally I'll socket a 10 spell crit in a lot of places, and as soon as the heroic gems aren't unique I'll be sticking the 5 spell crit/2 mp5 gems in a lot more places.

My Current Stats In PVE Gear:
10k unbuffed health
107 mp5 while casting
+2,050 Healing
28% Spell Crit Rating
12k Mana

I've been thinking about getting a little more + healing as well as intellect since int contributes to spell crit as well as mana etc. Tell me what you guys think.

Udub · 03/04/08, 10:50 PM

Hello,

Thank you for this very nice addon.
I found one thing that I'd like to have a change.
I don't have LoSR, and when in hps mode (or the new hps with mending mode from Quozzy), and targetting a target with
BoL, the libram doesnt switch from BBoN to LotL and backwards.
Is it possible to change this?

Thanks
Udub

vorda · 03/05/08, 12:09 AM

I've been thinking about getting a little more + healing as well as intellect since int contributes to spell crit as well as mana etc. Tell me what you guys think.

You'r best off going a few (say 10 or so) pages back and reading those swiftly. The Crit vs +heal discussion has been held here a few times, with the main argruments of the +heal team (including me

) being that +heal is a reliable, non overhealing way of increasing your HPM and HPS at the same time. Whereas crit is unreliable, and due to its unreliable nature should be considered mostley overhealing or unnecassary.

I'm sure you can find the argruments of the crit rating side a few times in this topic aswell, but I'd prefer not to start the whole discussion over again.

(also, Galzohar created another topic a while ago mainly about crit vs heal -though it turned out into a pointless discussion near the end-, may want to do a search on topics created by him)

edit: also; I cant believe you went for the +dmg hyjal ring. You know you wont be able to swap it till you're exalted right?
the topic I was talking about: [Paladin] Holy raid itemization for best performance

Sumada · 03/05/08, 1:38 AM

The cost of the brilliant mana oil really isn't that bad, at least on my server. It's like 10-15g for two shards, I spent like 5g on a stack of 20 lotuses that I've been drawing from for a good long time, and 1g (?) for 5 vials...that's really not too bad, especially compared to what I spend on repairs on progression nights. I think you're vastly overestimating their cost...perhaps you're buying them off the AH rather then finding someone who can make them? At most I'll use one (5 charges) per raid night, but if I only oil up for bosses a lot of the time it can be timed well enough to only use 2-4 charges in a night...depending on how long we spend raiding. I suppose we don't spend a whole lot of hours raiding usually though. Still, 15-20g really doesn't seem bad for one night of raiding to me. Flasks cost more then that...about 40-50g for mighty restoration I believe, if you don't get a mark of the illidari.

Davechapally · 03/05/08, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by vorda

edit: also; I cant believe you went for the +dmg hyjal ring. You know you wont be able to swap it till you're exalted right?
the topic I was talking about

Right, i'm pretty close to exalted, tbh I accidentally picked the wrong one and paged a GM the second after I got the ring, however, they told me even though I hadn't gained any reputation they wouldn't change the ring for me.