Thats a pretty stupid reason to make it 34.

Given the amount of MP5 we have at SSC level we can still continously cast Rank 2/3 Holy Light 110-34 = 76 mana per cast.

In 5 second span, you can fit 2 HLs (assume no crazy spell haste), thats 76x2 = 152. So with casting 152mp5 you can already sustain it indefinitely? Whats the point of changing the libram for Rank 1/2/3 spells.

The problem with allowing it to reduce the cost to zero means that when you cast you stay outside the 5 second rule, so technically you can be healing and regenerating mana at the same time even though the heals would be really small. Also Paladins don't regenerate nearly as much mana outside 5 second rule as Priests and Druids so I agree that its not a good change.

I thought the 5 second rule starts counting when your cast finishes, not on mana depletion?

You thought wrong 5 second rule only counts when you loose mana. This is part of what makes Clearcasting (for priests) and Eye of Gruul so powerful.

Spells that don't cost mana don't trigger the 5 second rule. It's just some wierd coding that doesn't really make sense when it comes to spells that have their mana cost reduced to zero by an ability or whatever, but that's how it works.

As for haste, it doesn't make you waste more mana. If anything it makes you slightly more efficienct as the extra HPS allows you, most of the time when sustained healing is needed, to use more efficient spells for the same HPS. At least on average. The efficiency gain per itemization point used on haste is very low though compared to any other stat, although far from neglicible benefits. Using my gear etc I was getting 10 haste = 11 healing in terms of efficiency (regardless of raid/party composition as it's just a "multiplier") due to the added HPS, not to mention the max burst increase which is worth in the area of 30 +healing for 10 haste rating. Socketing haste would be more situational as it would only be worthwhile when/where mana is not a seriuos issue compared to burst but it's not a subpar choice. Crit, on the other hand, is subpar in any case as 11 healing 5 int will always provide more burst and more efficiency (even moreso without any party support due to int being more significant the less mana you have, but also with full resto shaman+shadowpriest support healing/int gems give more). The only way 10 crit would increase efficiency more than 11 heal/5 int is if you very very often "underheal" so your crits don't overheal much, and have full support on top (shadowpriest and probably a shaman on top, or int simply won't scale low enough although the actual amount of support depends on the gear you have and more importantly how much effective healing exactly you think you're getting from crits - but it has to be very high for 10 crit to be something to even consider). Realistically 10 crit rating just doesn't win out over 11 healing 5 int - even 9 healing 4 int is most likely better even in the most crit-favoring realistic scenario I can think of. Leave lionseyes for 10 hit gems for the rogues (then again leave all epic gems to DPSers first...)

For the [Libram of Absolute Truth] and the fact that it would make you HL skip the 5sec rule.
Why dont they just make the libram give back 84 mana(or less) on successful HL cast, which would keep it in the 5sec rule.

Yes this would technically give you mana from casting a spell, but it would be a spell you could really never use when healing a tank or anything in raid for that matter.

An another topic, Don't you think the new libram of souls redeemed's benefit to flash of light is less than that of the blessed book of nagrand ?

Maybe I'm missing something but :

On a target with BoL
FH w/ libram of souls redeemed : + 60 effective heal maximum
FH w/ Blessed book of nagrand : + 79 effective heal maximum

On a target without BoL
FH w/ libram of souls redeemed : nothing
FH w/ Blessed book of nagrand : + 79 effective heal maximum

The contribution of the LoSR to Holy light is still rather nice (though it seems buggy on the ptr, can't really tell a difference with or without it), but the nerf on FH seems a bit harsh since it makes the libram worse than the one you get when you've killed half of Nagrand's wild life. What do you think ?

Still better than Blessed Book of Nagrand after 2.4 goes live IF Blessing of Light is on your target. LosR adds flat 60*1,12 ~ 67 Healing to your FoL if BoL is up, BBoN will add 79 * 1,5/3,5 * 1,12 (skill in the holy tree) ~ 38 more Healing to your FoL.

Unless I am mistaken, the Blessed Book of Nagrand is effected by spell coefficient (43% for FoL) while the Libram of Souls Redeemed is not. So the BBoN only improves FoL by 34.

I hear your point. I couldn't test it accurately because as I said earlier I couldn't notice any difference with or without the LoSR on PTR for both FH and HL (yes, I had BoL on myself)

So the assumptions are :
- BBoN takes +heal casting coefficient into account
- Both librams' bonus are accounted before the sanctified light talent

Any idea on how to check this ?

Quick, much lower level of progression healadin question. My guild clears Kara and Gruuls, and would like to move onto SSC and TK but is currently hamstrung by the inability of many raid members to play their class with any level of competence (for example, we have a raid requirement thread where many members are lamenting the "impossibility" of hitting 700 dps in Kara level gear, /eyeroll).

Anyways, I'm always looking for ways to improve my efficiency and throughput with the gear I have available to me. I mostly FoL spam with a HL4 tossed in here and there to keep LG up, and don't *generally* (at ~1700 +heals) need to use HL to keep targets up except on bad Prince fights and Gruul. I am currently using [Gladiator's Ornamented Gloves] because I adore the extra 2% crit on my FoL. However, I also have [Gauntlets of Renewed Hope] (unsocketed) that I picked up in my inventory, and have the token for [Item not found!] sitting in my bank. Would one of the first two be better than the other (specifically, would it be worth gemming and enchanting the Gauntlets) situationally? Is it worth getting the T4 gloves at that point, or should I just take the T4 tanking gloves instead?

It doesn't matter how you play, the gaunlets of renewed hope are awesome gloves. But seriously you don't need to make a long story just to ask which item to use, and also you could go to a spreadsheet or something to see which gives you more useful stats rather than just asking about this one item, and tomorrow when you have another item dilema you'll have no clue what to use, again.

And if your DPS can't go over 700, well, tell them to hit the correct buttons. It's not that hard. And if they need those forums probably have a thread that will have a good explanation of what to do on its first post.

After reading a lot of these threads I find some back story makes things slightly more interesting to read. People can always skip straight to the question if they really want to.

I suppose my question was more as to whether the extra healing on the Gauntlets outweighed the ~3% FoL crit on the gladiator gloves.

I realize 700 dps is easy to attain. I'm almost there on my 64 hunter. Many of my guild mates are just extremely lazy and want their free epics, but that's a completely separate issue.

So I've noticed once your hovering around 2200+ healing most people are changing out their stats to +crit instead of say mp5. My stats are a bit twitchy, I'm at 2300 healing in PvE gear with 105 mp5 and 22% crit or something low like that for holy.

I've quit raid healing for a couple months and now I'm kinda confused why people have switched back to spell crit over mp5/healing?

Well, crit vs healing is highly situational. For stream-healing usually +healing is OK and the way to go as soon as you don't go oom during the fight. For reactive healing (say raid healing on council) crit is much more valuable as well as haste. According to my WWS I hardly overhealed with all my crits being raid healer on council, so you may put crit efficiency for at least 90% there, for example. And it's HL crits, not FoL one, that makes crit even more valuable in terms of efficiency.

As a side note - I am quite geared atm, most of items are from T6 content, a lot of mp5 on items (I prefer gems with mp5 over pure healing), use mp5 flask/oil and still on quite a few fights go oom (Bloodboil for example). Even drinking mana pots each CD. Maybe it's because we are not healer heavy raid sometimes and usually put SP in mage group. Or maybe our raiders are used to good healing and don't bother to move out of crap things asap. But still, assuming that you never go oom and after that drawing a conclusion about stat efficiency and putting it here as a general conclusion without pointing at situations where it doesn't work isn't very good imho. Healerdines will think that +healing is the end of the day and go for insane +healing number, eat red gems and then find themselves screwed in quite a few t6 encounters.

It's not that bad, if we are having problems on a certian encounter, we can just swap in two mp5 trinkets.

@galzohar

I really appreciate the amount of quailty imput you have given healadin thoerycrafting...

Just a request, but would you happen to have an armory link and/or WWS parses i could I a look at?

Armory is linked if you click my name...

I don't have any WWS but you really can't see much out of it because you can never tell what was my assignment (if any). Generally you will do a lot more healing if you're allowed to "FFA" heal while others are not, although this job is more suited for shamans and priests... Also I find myself on varying positions on the meters depending how the fight went - if you catch those people that take unexpected damage before anyone else it can move you a lot on the healing meters, but they won't show that you skipped the heal on the tank that would've saved him from dying to heal that other person. Even looking at the "death log" of a tank or someone you were supposed to be healing won't tell you a lot what you did wrong unless you remember what happened. In general if you were assigned to heal someone who died you probably did something wrong (or assignments are done in a way that prevents you from doing your job...), but even that is not true 100% of the time.

I was wondering if it's worth the 3 pts for Imp Concentration Aura? Me and another pally in my guild have been doing a little experimenting and have been finding that it doesn't really help any(ie Void Reaver, Bear Boss in ZA and trash in SSC), just wondering if it's worth it. thanks!

-Holywing

Kaz'rogal comes to mind as another fight where the silence reduction is extremely useful, and the increased pushback reduction is useful in quite a few fights for party members that don't have talented pushback reduction. And really, there's not any particularly useful alternatives, unless you don't run with a ret paladin, then it might be worthwhile for one paladin to go something like 42/11/8.

It's also nice to not have to respec for pvp.

Edit: Azgalor, not Kaz'rogal, durr.

ok, so it DOES do something? it just seems that we get the full duration of a silence like everyone else, we just want to know to optimize or raiding spec, and for better group compostion

I recently picked up Holy Librams! after the discussion on this thread, and have a question for those who use it:

1. I notice that when I set to efficiency mode, it uses my [Libram of Mending] whenever I cast Holy Light. If I set it to throughput mode, it uses [Libram of the Lightbringer] instead. AFAIK, addons/macros can no longer dynamically scan for buffs on a player, so does that mean my efficiency HL will always use the [Libram of Mending] even if the Light's Grace mp5 buff is still ticking?

2. Related to the above, would it ever switch me to the [Libram of Souls Redeemed], and if yes, under which circumstances? Again, I don't see how this would work without being able to scan for your target having the Blessing of Light buff, unless I'm just misunderstanding the limitations of what Blizzard lets addons do.

I apologize for the derail, but I couldn't find any documentation on this issue.