And guys, don't flame Galg for him not being in Sunwell/T6. He just presents mathematical models that should work in ideal healing world. Those models are OK per se, we just have to determine how realistic and relevant they are in real raiding environment.

@Andrast:

Yes, the [Libram of Light] also works the same as the [Blessed Book of Nagrand], in that they are affected by the healing coefficient, whereas Blessing of Light (and the subsequent bonus from the Libram of Souls Redeemed) is not.

Explicitly:
A [Libram of Light] would increase your Flash of Light's healing by 36 (or 83 * 43%)
A [Blessed Book of Nagrand] would increase your Flash of Light's healing by 34 (or 79 * 43%)
A [Libram of the Lightbringer] would increase your Holy Light's healing by 62 (or 87 * 71%)
A [Libram of Souls Redeemed] would increase your Flash of Light's healing by 60, provided the target has Blessing of Light. This is equivalent to 140 +healing
A [Libram of Souls Redeemed] would increase your Holy Light's healing by 120, provided the target has Blessing of Light. This is equivalent to 168 +healing

If you notice, the "up to" phrase is not found in the [Libram of Souls Redeemed]'s tooltip.

The "up to" phase is, however, found on blessing of light's tooltip which is what I said and why I asked for some evidence to back up the claims.

You can easily go in game and see this for yourself. Spam FoL on yourself with BoL and without. Fairly easy to see it go up by 185 instead of 85. You can do the same with the libram. The up to is probably in reference to the downranking penalty.

What is the general opinion on the "Wave of Life" mail chestguard?

I would feel funny wearing mail instead of plate, but the stats on it are incredible!

Here is a link to the Wave of Life shaman chest piece (100 badges):
Wave of Life Chestguard - Items - World of Warcraft

In comparison, here is the holy pally badge chest piece (100 badges):
Ecclesiastical Cuirass - Items - World of Warcraft

I've noticed that there seems to be a big push in the new badge loot to get more Stam on us. It seems they are pushing us more towards the "I'm a valuable healer because of my survivability" aspect. Which is fine by me. I always get a chuckle when I pug some heroic and pull a little aggro off of a crappy tank. Everyone goes into "OMG, protect the healer" mode and I just laugh. I like not being some Nancy Boy Clothie. I can take a few hits (quite a few actually) and roll with it just fine.

That said, I tend to favor Spell Crit over mp5 at this time. Since 2.4, I have had a lot less mana issues. To that end, I would still favor the plate piece.

I would use the plate one, they are very close though and if you are having mana issues the mail one would be better. If they were both plate I would go with the mp5 one aswell. But that extra 1000 armor can be useful in some circumstances, I take hits from mobs more times then I would like to say.

What changed in 2.4 that reduced your mana issues?

In terms of mail items (or even cloth), here are some other interesting cases:

[Legplates of the Holy Juggernaut]
vs
[Kilt of Spiritual Reconstruction]
(I'm going for the mail ones)


[Sunblessed Gauntlets]
vs
[Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves]
(harder case, plate ones are more all-round though, which is nice in this case)


[Shawl of Wonderment]
vs
[Equilibrium Epaulets]
vs
[Spaulders of the Thalassian Savior]
(cloth ones clearly win in my eyes. The plate ones are even barely and upgrade over t6. Nevertheless, I'll be sticking to t6 for my 4pc bonus in 'final' gear)


[Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard]
vs
[Sunblessed Breastplate]
vs
[Robe of Eternal Light]
(BoP Leatherworking/Blacksmithing/Tailoring chests. Cloth one wins by such a margin I think its overbudget)


It's absurd how much mp5 Blizzard put on all these paladin items, defenitly when you compare it to the shaman ones.

Why would you ever use [Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves] over [Sunblessed Gauntlets]. Is 32 haste really worth 32 crit and 8mp5.

It is also is pretty greedy to take other classes loot when you have decent plate ones, especially since they are also use for sunmote turn ins. Maybe once no one else needs them though.

Those gloves (and the chest) that were being compared are crafted, so you're not really taking loot from anyone.

Yea, true. But the cloth is probably really not worth it then. Will get better use of T6 chest, and Alchemist/Enchanting for Ring enchants and Alchemist Stone. Most of the upgrades you are considering are trading spell crit for spell haste. Which I don't think is really worth taking non plate stuff for.

2.4 Patch notes:

* Spirit-Based Mana Regeneration: This system has been adjusted so that as your intellect rises, you will regenerate more mana per point of spirit.


I haven't looked at the mechanics behind this change, but I feel like I've seen a significant increase to my mp5.

That would be very weird. Since unless you have spirit from gear (and pala plate has no spirit at all) you won't see much of a difference. Also this spirit regeneration applies ONLY to OO5S rule, so as soon as you cast at least 1 spell in 5 sec (and what pally healer isn't in real boss fight?) then your regeneration from spirit is 0.0 mp5, no matter how big your spirit is. Therefore probably what you see is just a placebo effect.


For paladins, since we have no talent to keep spirit regeneration in fight, spirit has close to absolutely 0 value in boss fights.

After 2.4 came out, I got a hold of a Darkmoon card: Blue Dragon from the darkmoon faire. I wanted to see if it would help with my mana regen.

Basically, what the card does is give you a 2% chance, on every spell cast, to get a 15 second buff. The buff lets you regen your mana at 100%, temporarily counteracting the 5 second rule.

Even with pathetic spirit, at around 100, my out-of-combat mana regen is still double my in-combat MP5 based regen. With wisdom, my in-combat MP5 is somewhere around 140, and my out-of-combat mana regen, which includes my mp5 + the spirit/int regen is probably around 270, or almost double.

I did a few tests where I would cast holy light until my mana bar was depleted. If the card activated, I could tell a difference and possibly get another cast or two off. Then I swapped out the card for my vial of the sunwell with the 15mp5. That was a much more consistent increase in mana. Much better than the darkmoon card, obviously when it didn't proc, and not quit as good when it did.

I'll do some more tests in the next few days and alternate holy light with flash of light until my mana bar is depleted, testing the different trinkets.

Also, I swapped in and out some crappy spirit gear to see what effect it would have. Basically, with my current intelligence value of 450ish or so, every additional point of spirit equates to an additional 1mp5 for out of combat.

Given that I"m an enchanter and can re-enchant my gear inexpensively, I might try to give myself a few spirit enchants and do all these tests again, just for kicks. As an example, if I were to enchant a few pieces with an extra 30 spirit, which should be easy to do, that would be an extra 30mp5 out of combat. However, combine that with the darkmoon blue dragon card, the results might be interesting, but I doubt it would make up for losing 6mp5 to chest and the int or whatever the other pieces already have on them... Still, it would be interesting to see how well it works out over 5 mana bars worth of heals....

Tokov

Well, you can just model it. If you cast holy lights non stop (that gives biggest proc rate) you will get 1 proc in about 50 casts, so 1 proc in about 110 sec with moderate latency. So about 14% of the time you will have the card procced. It averages for 14% of your spirit mp5 while casted, that is (270-140)*0.14=18.5mp5. If your cast rate is lower, corresponding regeneration is lower too.

Doing the math out for how much mana it will give you on average, it is normally 20mp5, but varies slightly based on how many spells you cast. It isn't bad, but there are much better trinkets. I would use a [Lower City Prayerbook] over that. Probably even a [Vial of the Sunwell] (looking at your gear) unless you are really strapped on mana.

what help do you want? First of all replace spirit/heal gem by heal/mp5 gem in belt. I would go with ZA chest with your stats, but they are more or less the same. Stamina eats quite a lot of extra budget from vendor chest, thus making it only a tad better iLvLwise (if you add only healer relevant stuff). ZA chest with haste/healing gems should be better both in terms of effectiveness and HPS in most early T6 fights.

I've chosen to stick with [Chestguard of Hidden Purpose] over the new badge loot as well. While the +crit is really nice, the loss to healing was too substantial to call it anything other than a sidegrade.

Really the decision as to which of these two pieces is better is made based on the rest of your gear and your desire to blow 100 badges (and the mats for a new enchant) on something that may not be much of an actual improvement.

First of all, original thread might want to be edited to reflect the new craftable BP from blacksmithing out of Sunwell, it's not bad, slight upgrade to t6.

Second, I had a few questions regarding healing on Brutallus. For those of you that stack +22 heal gems, how large is your mana pool typically buffed? Do you put on more int for a fight like Brutallus? How long does it take you to run OOM chain chugging? Do you prefer Major Restoration to Distilled Wisdom, or vice versa for certain fights, even always?

Also, I don't know about everyone else, I haven't read much of the thread mostly skimming, but I'm starting to find that mp5 is almost pointless to even consider. With the amount of brute force healing Sunwell requires, the stat has become almost pointless for me. Any thoughts?

Sure, I'll get on updates. I'm ret now, but Endoscient frequents these boards and can help me since he's in my guild. If there is anything else you want, feel free to PM me, I'm an active member of these boards and check this thread usually once a day.

Around 11.5k or so. I use double elixirs over a flask there for obvious reasons. Your comment about using int to go oom less quickyl is kind of stupid, if mana is really a problem go for mp5.

Anyway, not one fight in entire TBC so far can get me full OOM when I have a spriest and even if it could, it wouldnt be because of my gemming.

You really should do some math on mp5 vs int. Mp5 gives more mana then Int on 6 minute fights, even with Kings and Divine Intellect. Without a shadow priest on Brutallus I go very tight on mana even with an Alchemist Stone, chaining pots, and 240mp5 buffed. My starting mana pool is like 12.5k but in a 6 min Brutallus fight I can use 80,000 mana without a shadow priest or 100,000 with a shadow priest (counting Illumination).

I also find that with brute force healing mp5 is still better. Because it lets you use Holy Light a lot more freely even though it might not heal as much.