In other words, its worth is determined by how often someone needing a major heal will be more than 40 yards away from all unoccupied healers. In the specific case of Paladins, who are best used as tank healers, the question becomes "How often is a Paladin healer more than 40 yards away from his assigned tank?"

In fact, for an 8% speed increase to be meaningful you'd need to be moving for long enough to save at least 1/10th of a second. This entails moving for 1.333 seconds at 108% speed, a distance of just over 14 yards. Are there any fights where a primary healing target will regularly be 55+ yards from a healer? The only one I know of is Morogrim, where it would definitely benefit the raid if a tank healer who gets Graved can get back into the fight sooner.

I'm with Onion on this. The only reasons I've seen given in this thread for a Paladin healer using Boar's Speed boil down to giving you greater leeway for slow reflexes in the fire and poor raid positioning. If you can correct those difficulties with better play instead of an enchant, you get 4 MP5 for free.

Kalecgos portals
Running for Burn on Brutallus
Encapsulate movement on Felmyst
Skeleton movement on Felmyst

None of these are something you have control over, and all of these entail a significant amount of moment. Getting to the appropriate positions on these fights asap is imperative to your raid role and to the raid role of others.

Let's agree to disagree then. I sure value 8% movement speed much higher than some mp5 that is wasted on me. Unless you'r ending a 6 minute fight under 288 mana, Vitality did nothing for you.

Then again, some of you may value mp5 higher than I do.

Kalecgos portals have a two second cooldown. This negates the speed benefit - you get there faster, but unless the portal isn't on CD when you arrive you don't get into the demon realm any sooner.

Burn is only cast 15-18 times in the whole fight (I've seen one report that lists 20 applications, but that's anomalous) and you can remove it with bubble the first time. Looking at a variety of WWS parses for Brutallus kills here on EJ, the chance of being Burned more than once is only around 20%. Also, the chaining distance is so small that the time saving is negligible.

Encapsulate, yes. The time saved in covering 20 yards is 0.15s, which is close enough to the standard human prepared reaction time to save a tick. It's only cast around 10 times a fight, though, those casts will be spread between four or five groups, and Mages and Paladins can both instantly remove it (as can Rogues, but healadins aren't in with the melee group so it doesn't matter to us). I have to ask if anyone is going to be hit often enough by it to justify using an enchantment to prevent the occasional tick of damage.

Skeletons ... I'm not seeing what you're shooting at. Sure, it helps that I don't get hit by Green Vapour and can dodge the lasers, but not everyone is using Boar's Speed and they have to move too. That puts its benefit into the category of letting you play worse rather than helping you do more. If I'm missing something here, please tell me what it is.


All in all, I'm still not seeing sufficient advantages in enough fights to justify running Boar's Speed over Vitality as a healadin.

I'm sorry to but into an enchant convo, but.. honestly, I just need help.
My main has been between a mage and hunter, and I understand DPS -very- well. The guild needed my alt to become my main, and I gladly helped.
I am a holy paladin, in T5/badge gear. I'm pretty much confused on where I go from here.
Unbuffed:
Healing ~1950
Crit ~21%
Mp5 ~ 135
I've heard Haste Gear/Crit, Mp5 w/FoL spam, Pure Crit and Healing gear, ect. What is the best way to do my gear and what is the primary rank/spell for that gear and MH/BT as a Paladin.
Once again, sorry about intruding, but EJ has always been the best place for me to find questions as a mage and hunter. Thanks ahead of time for any help =)

I tend to just try to balance my MP5 and crit, along with +heal. I have the luxury of being able to swap out a few pieces for more crit, or more mp5 however, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I think your understating how often your on the move in Sunwell or BT/MH, between moving from AoE, getting into better positions for raid healing, keeping spacing ect. Unlike druids/priests that are relatively functional on the move, a moving paladin is completely useless. Can't see why you wouldn't want to minimise this time. Additionally, playing with 400+ latency, every extra tick of AOE counts.

And if my tank never went below 150 health, the +12 Stamina on his boots did nothing for him. But it's better that he has it and doesn't need it than he needs it and doesn't have it, no?

This is the recount of my healing done for tonights raid, that shows a 42% increase in effective healing for crits. That is 20 Eredar Twins attempts, including a kill. Using mostly HL9, with some HL11.


Just an example of how in some fights you can get close to 50% effective crit bonus.

Of course as the fights get more trivial crits will overheal more. But, who cares about your gear on trivial fights.

Doesn't that seem somewhat concerning? All that healing that was actually used from crits that wouldn't have happened had you had bad luck with crit. If your assignment would be fine assuming a horrible crit rate(~25%), is it safe to assume that you're simply causing others to overheal?

Buffers are nice but this is why I've considered the majority of crit's value to come from the Illumination portion, rather than the increased unreliable HPS.

My view on boar's speed is that the cost is so small (4 mp5) that you may as well get it, and it makes running back after wipes a little less painful too (plus you can laugh at everyone who doesn't have a speed enhancement). The "if your reactions are good you don't need it" argument is kind of silly - if your mana management skills (or the skills of your raid members in avoiding damage) are good you won't need the regen either.

You can get mp5 elsewhere, you can't get a speed increase anywhere other than a boot enchant like Boar's Speed (apart from gutting your talents by getting PoJ as a holy paladin).

4 mp5 is not going to make or break a fight, whereas getting out of the range of an AoE effect like, say, Encapsulate on Felmyst or Felmyst's breaths, can and does make or break a fight.

To me it's a simple question of using all the tools in the toolbox -- boar's speed is a cheap (in an opportunity cost way) of getting 8% run speed, and 4 mp5 is available in plentiful other forms. Of course, your mileage may vary, but I'd strongly recommend boar's speed for holy paladins.

Strange.. I outgear you and have massive mana issues in Sunwell against the 2 bosses I've "done".

I think its fairly well established that "every little bit helps" and that trying to make the argument you are making will fail. After all its the combination of all those epic gems that makes the difference over blue gems or green gems right? It's the combination of all those enchants together that beats unenchanted gear. It's the combination of all those little upgrades that allows us to perform to the level required against the high end encounters.

Boar's Speed also has the incidental effect of increasing your hp/s in any fight that you move on (most of them, actually).

From a BB post with a similar argument.

Sure, vitality is far from useless, but it's pretty obvious speed has wide applications, and while you can recover regen with other enhancements, speed is not nearly so accessible. I require my raid members to enchant it (or Cat's) on their primary boots.

A HL critrate as low as you describe (25%) is pretty well impossible with the gear you (should) possess in Sunwell. I think it's pretty clear from the strength of incoming damage in Sunwell that paladin hp/s expectations are designed with a 40-50% crit rate (varying on gems). The hp/s gain of high spellcrit is no more unreliable than tanks stacking avoidance, and in fact goes hand in hand (you can solo heal a Sathrovarr tank because he avoids and you crit with regularity - the mob certainly hits harder than any 1 of your heals can repair).

My apologies. I wasn't clear on the level of content I'm in, which is MH/BT. Though I could step into any of my server's late-BT/SWP guilds at will, I choose not to because I guild with friends.

I do anticipate the mana requirements being higher in Sunwell, but regen from gear scales accordingly so the principle remains. It's also another argument for taking Vitality over BS.

Well, I already did get some bad luck. Full buffed I should have 40% Holy Light crit rate.

I wouldn't say the extra healing on crits is wasted since you can't rely on it. When it happens it helps your tank get topped off quicker, decreasing the chance that he will die. It might cause others to overheal more, but that is true anytime you increase your healing done, since there a set amount of damage being taken.

Well, with that spec you drop imp Righteous Fury. Which I don't think I would ever do without. An easy to get -6% damage taken.

<boggle>

If every little bit helps, how does 8% run speed not help?

4 mp5 v. 8% run speed seems like a very clear cut choice for me.

My main healing set is a balanced set. I also carry a pure haste/hps set. I used to carry an hpm set, but found I never used it so I have it banked now.

I typically am 50/50 FoL/HL over the long run, with varying percentages depending on what role I'm playing in what encounter.

I use my main healing set on most fights, with the exception being I use my haste/hps set on Gurtogg.

I find it disadvantageous to stack any particular stat, since the way Blizzard itemizes, you eventually reach a point of diminishing returns where you can up a particular stat, but only at an increasingly severe cost to your other stats. Extreme Example: Wearing "of Healing" greens to stack +heal as high as it'll go, gutting everything else in the process.

I don't think anybody here said it _didn't_ help. I think they were saying two things. One, it is situationally useful, depending on your play style. Two, in the rest of the situations, 4 mp5/hp5 is _more_ useful than 8% run speed. If you're the type of person who spends a lot of time running out of the fire or what have you, then yes, obviously 8% run speed is going to do you a lot of good. For my part, the few times I've specced holy and done any serious healing whatsoever, I can tell you that the 4 mp5 would've been a godsend in my crappy quest blues. To each their own, really.

Are you the type of person who stands in the fire then?

In general, getting out of the fire faster means less time healing yourself (saving several hundred mana per fire move) than the small benefit 4mp5 would return.