I have pretty much some of the best holy gear available in the game atm, I've been playing around with haste since ZA came out expanding the list of haste items one can acquire. Haste is definitely THE stat for holy paladins in Sunwell, IF your healing style is similar to mine, which is pure HL spams (downranked or otherwise). I rarely flash except on trash and maybe Felmyst air phase.

For Flash of light spam, +healing is probably better with the minor spellhaste you get from t6 gear in Sunwell and misc gear like 2x Blessed bands, etc. For HL, I've tried both, stacking gear with spellhaste AND using regular gear but with spellhaste gems. I've also tried doing both at the same time but its overkill because you sacrifice too much in-terms of regen.

Firstly, stacking spellhaste items will be successful post bt/pre-sunwell because items are readily available for it, like the belt off Gorefiend, 2x karabor rings, Illidan cloak and neck from ZA, etc. As you move into sunwell you gain access to the t6 belt and boots early on. Both have great stats AND passive spellhaste. At this point its a prudent choice to gem for spellhaste and equip regular mp5/crit gear in off-slots. This'll give you a great balance of stats. Later on the gloves and chest off mu'ru will add more spellhaste and legs off kalec/helm off KJ will give you massive regen to support spellhaste.

I've been gearing up with this philosophy in mind and its worked out quite well so far. Too bad I have to tank Mu'ru. I'd love to heal it =/.

Throughout the past week I've really been torn on this issue and came to the same conclusion as well in terms of gearing/gemming for haste primarily. If you regularly get a shadow priest, the answer is quite clear, however in my case I almost never get one so that's why I was torn but in the end I still feel it's best given all the SA mana return in Sunwell.

CTProfiles.net: World of Warcraft Profiles � Tsiksun � Wish List

That's the ideal gear in the game overall; at least in my opinion. CT lacks the M'uru gloves so subtract the crit rating and add 30 haste; it ends up being 319 haste rating(~19% Haste = 1.62 Holy Lights) without Drums active.

A nice perk that I've noticed as well is even with half the haste I will have in the end, is the GCD difference. This is especially noticeable on M'uru while HoJing and casting Seal of Wisdom. Not to mention the increased margin for error in terms of your previous GCD ending earlier and your following Holy Light landing sooner.

Don't you think [Sunblessed Breastplate] > [Noble Judicator's Chestguard] ? You'd gain 4 mp5 and 34 crit at the cost of just 12 Stam and 1 Int.


Edit : Oh, wait. The Chestguard has spell haste. CT doesn't show that.

Regardless, [Sunblessed Breastplate] requires having blacksmithing. Which means you either dropped Leatherworking (Drums) or you dropped [Recipe: Redeemer's Alchemist Stone].

12 stamina and 1 Int isn't a serious consideration; 15 mana is nothing, and Stamina isn't worth it so long as you have enough. The choice comes down to how you can best gem them.

If you're matching sockets and trying to make them as equivalent as possible, the gemming is:

Sunblessed

22 heal
10 haste
11 heal/2 MP5

NJC

11 heal/4 spellcrit
11 heal/4 spellcrit
11 heal/2 MP5

The trade-off is then 4 MP5 and 26 spell crit against 24 haste. 4 MP5 isn't that big a difference when you already have 120-150 MP5 on your gear, so it's really down to what's worth more to you - 1.3% crit or 1.7% faster casting.

Alternately, you could jettison the idea of crit on the NJC entirely. Instead of the 11 heal/4 spellcrit gems you could use Spinels for a +22 heal increase over Sunblessed, or fill all three sockets with 11 heal/2 MP5 gems to make it a straight up contest of 24 haste vs 34 crit.

Looking at the two items as a Healadin with BS, I'd go with [Sunblessed Breastplate] ... but I'd be thinking of [Noble Judicator's Chestguard]. If I could muster around 25% Holy crit without Sunblessed, it wouldn't be a contest.

This post has insanely flawed logic. Why can you just ignore 4mp5, if you think it is so meaningless why are you gemming for mp5 then. If you could muster 25% Holy Crit? That is insanely easy to do with T6 level gear, even if you are gearing mostly for haste as well. Might know this if you have actually been to anything above SSC/TK.

My thoughts on [Sunblessed Breastplate] are it is not worth being a blacksmith for. At worst it isn't that much of an upgrade over T6, you would get much better use out of being a Enchanter/Alch or Leatherworker/Alch.

Neither of the two new chest pieces are a big upgrade over tier 6, it might be better to keep the 4 piece bonus from tier 6 even if it is a bonus to FoL which is rarely used in Sunwell. I'll end up picking it up regardless just because there is no cross class competition for the drop, but im questioning its general usefulness.

A minor quibble: Blessing of Kings is normally preferable to Blessing of Wisdom for Holy Priests in T6 content.

Raid-buffed prior to Blessings, I have about 660 Spirit and 600 Intellect. This gives me about 754 mp5 outside FSR. Blessing of Kings will raise this to 870 mp6 outside FSR - a difference of 126 mp5 outside of FSR.

At 100% FSR, this is 37.8 mp5 - a shortfall of 11.4 mp5. The additional starting mana from Intellect covers this shortfall in any fight less than six and a half minutes long.

At 89% or less FSR, Blessing of Kings is strictly better than Blessing of Wisdom for raw mana regeneration even discounting any impact on starting mana pools.

I didn't think anyone meant to imply you'd break the 4-piece bonus for either item. OTOH, is there a reason not to upgrade once you get your fifth piece of T6?

Malleus, there are currently 4 upgradeable slot offpieces of tier 6 that you can gain in Sunwell since KJ has not been released yet.

[Sunblessed Gauntlets] which are crafted.
[Spaulders of the Thalassian Savior] which drops off the Eredar Twins.
[Legplates of the Holy Juggernaut] which drops off Kalec.
[Noble Judicator's Chestguard] which drops off M'uru.
[Gauntlets of the Soothed Soul] which also drops off M'uru.

At this point, sacrificing 4 piece isn't a problem since you still have your t6 helm. What happens when KJ comes out? KJ drops this helm [Helm of Burning Righteousness] which is an obvious upgrade to [Lightbringer Greathelm].

Any of the gloves dropped or crafted are a clear upgrade to [Lightbringer Gloves] or [Vengeful Gladiator's Ornamented Gloves].

Spaulders, Legplates are clear upgrades to [Lightbringer Pauldrons] and [Lightbringer Leggings]. An extra socket in the shoulders as well as 2 extra sockets in the legplates.

So now, for a while the paladins have thought their t6 chest to be their 4th piece.

Comparing [Lightbringer Chestpiece] vs. [Noble Judicator's Chestguard] since not everyone is a BS.

I socketed my [Lightbringer Chestpiece] with two [Luminous Pyrestone] and one [/item]Royal Shadowsong Amethyst[/item]. I also enchanted it with 6pm5.

So I have 140healing, 28 spell crit, 21mp5, 43 int, 42 stam on the chestpiece.

If I were to obtain a [Noble Judicator's Chestguard] and socket it with [Teardrop Crimson Spinel]x2, [Royal Shadowsong Amethyst]x1 and 6mp5 to chest.

I have 169 Healing gaining 29 healing, 20mp5 losing 1mp5, lose 28 spell crit instead gain 34 haste, 53 int to gain 9 int, and 53 sta gain 10stam.

The only real peak here is the 29 healing gain and the 34 haste gain at the loss of spell crit. You're still keeping your 4pc since KJ hasn't been released.

Which leads me to my next question, what is the consensus of this forums for their 4th t6 piece or is it not even pertinent at all since we barely use FoL in Sunwell?

Only time will tell us whether or not keeping 4pc is worth it, healing is near-impossible to theorycraft and most of the strongest healers I know of gear/spec based on "feel." We'll have to wait and see how much we use flash and if we even will at all. Currently my gear is far from ideal and I only use flash rarely on trash and during non-stomp on Brutallus. However, I honestly feel that if I were to obtain [Libram of Absolute Truth], I would simply replace flash with rank 4-7 HL(rank to be determined depending on how mana/HPS is) on Brutallus.

So we'll have to see how the fights end up being after raid members get geared up and of course we also have to determine how we'll be healing on Kil'Jaeden. As for what piece to wear to maintain 4pc, I'd go with T6 Shoulders honestly. It's the perfect piece to use one of your blue gems in for the meta requirement due to it's +heal socket bonus and [Spaulders of the Thalassian Savior] provide no additional haste. The helm and pants don't either but those two items are clearly a much more valuable upgrade over T6 than the Twins shoulders are from T6. Again, this is my opinion and it's likely to change somewhat depending on how I "feel" is best to gear as time goes on. There really is no clear-cut, black-and-white "best way to gear" as a holy paladin currently.

Until you start hitting the last boss in the zone you can still run 4 piece and still have it be the best gear option, so isn't that really a non-issue until Kil'jaeden?

What you would have before KJ:

T6 helm (1)
Twins shoulders
Muru chest
T6 bracers (2)
Muru or trash gloves (the mail ones)
T6 belt (3)
Kalecgos legs
T6 boots (4)

I don't see how dropping 4 piece is even an option until the place is on farm. This is assuming of course you run all plate gear (with the exception of the mail trash gloves, which destroy T6 so I considered it pretty evenly with the Muru gloves).

Really? The only hard bit is going to be getting the three new pieces of T6. As Wintern said, there's no cross-class competition for the rest of the gear - odds are fair that somebody will have the option within 24 hours of the first KJ kill. If we know all the loot tables, there's no reason to postpone the discussion.


Formulae for calculating the effect of T6 4-piece and 30 spellcrit vs 34 haste and 28 +heal. Obviously this isn't going to be a perfect model, but it should be accurate enough to work from. If you see anything I've missed, tell me what and I'll adjust accordingly, but I think I've got all the required variables.

Notes:

1) Effects of overheal are ignored at this stage; this is calculating the optimum result, not the typical.
2) For ease of calculation, the effect of 30 spellcrit is rounded up to 1.4%.
3) The baseline figure for total healing (HEAL) is derived from wearing T6 4-piece, and is equal to the sum of effective healing and overhealing.
4) The Paladin is presumed not to have any idle time.

Total healing from T6 4-piece bonus (A)

A = 0.048x(HEAL)

where x is the percentage of HEAL that comes from Flash.

Now, the adjustments. This requires a multistage formula.

Total healing adjusted for loss of T6 set bonus and 1.4% crit (B)

B = (HEAL-A) * [(198.6+crit)/(200+crit)]

Healing gained from 28 +heal (C)

C = 19.88y + 11.76z

where y is the number of HL casts and z is the number of Flash casts.

Total healing adjusted for 34 additional haste (D)

D = (B+C) * [(102.16+q)/(100+q)]

where q is your additional casts per 100 from haste excluding the haste from NJC.


If D > HEAL, then in terms of mathematical optima NJC is worth breaking 4-piece T6 for. Actual utility may differ as you won't always get maximum benefit from haste, but the rounding up on crit and ignoring of crit's additional overhealing makes up for some of the difference.

Hi All

I find your analysis of Gems interesting. I took a different approach by using the spreadsheet to analise the healing delta based on increasing stats.

Here (for my fight profile 80% FOLs) I ranked them as so:

+4 MP5 = 4438
5 INT, 2 MP5 = 3930
11 HEAL, 2 MP5 = 3466
11 HEAL, 5 INT = 2954
22 HEAL = 2486

Which is nearly the opposite order of priority you place them in?

A new paladin has just joined our guild who favoured +HEAL and CRIT which made me look into the benefits.

For a 8 min boss fight I analysed my stats Vs his, I had 80 MP5 more and he had 7% more crit. I would regen nearly 6.5K more mana than him thru the fight. Surely the extra HLs I could pull off with this extra mana regen would offset the extra crit healing he would have done than me? (I have not analysed this).

But then it got me thinking of the benefits of having a crit biased pala in the raid, along with two "balanced" palas, I think is has great advantages on some BT bosses where spamming HL is needed. Just a thought

But the gems issue was mainly what I wanted to put forward, am I misinterpreting somthing here because using the two different forms of analysis (spreadsheet Vs points) seems to yield drastically different results

The mail felmyst legs destroy the plate Kalecgos ones aswell. Alot of items beat plate in sunwell actually, considering our gear often has more mp5 than the mail version (and for giggles, compare plate Twins shoulders with cloth ones..) .

First I have a question to confirm whether [Superior Wizard Oil] and [Brilliant Wizard Oil] give +healing as well as +spell damage.

If they do, I would like to hear some opinions of which weapon oil would be best and in which situations.
To my mind there are 4 possible candidates, 5 if you are on the sunwell plateau.
[Superior Wizard Oil]
[Brilliant Wizard Oil]
[Superior Mana Oil]
[Formula: Brilliant Mana Oil]
[Blessed Weapon Coating] (swp)


If the wizard oils also give +healing I will probably go for [Brilliant Wizard Oil] mostly. Since I'm one of those guys who favor spell haste & crit =)

I agree with this, when first seeing the two pair of legs on the ptr, I knew I wanted the mail ones, lucky enough for me we have already seen quite a few mail legs.

They do provide +Healing. I often use Superior Wizard Oil on encounters where mana is non-issue.

It's really just a matter of how much regen you feel that you need. You sacrifice small amounts of +Healing for more regen as you work your way down that list.

My word, I didn't know that. I use SWO with my S-Priest, but it never even occurred to me to check.

What do people think of the idea of using Blessed Wizard Oil in T5 content, where 200+ MP5 is easily attainable but crit is a little harder to come by?

Well, being an alchemist obviously helps (that trinket is just completely insane) but after regemming my healing gear (from healing to haste) for the farm evening this reset, I'm not really experiencing much mana differences. My healing is much smoother, I use abit more flash now probably and most importantly, my emergency HL's land quicker.

I know we always complain about how blizzard is just making shamans the best healing class ingame because of the boss encounters (well, I know I do!) but the upside to that is that we are gaining unseen amounts of mana trough SA aswell.

Anyway, I still havent managed to go fully OOM on any fight while chaining mana pots and not overhealing like a madman (anything above 55% = too much overhealing imo, especially since I'm running lower on crit now), once I do, I will probably reconsider my healing style above my gems. (and may start using the Lurker libram)

That inspires a thought. As a Paladin healer, is it worth grinding a stack of Dark/Demonic Runes? If you're sure you don't have to heal yourself so you can get benefit from SA, they're nearly equal to a [Superior Mana Potion] but on a separate cooldown.

Thinking a little deeper: on a fight where the raid is spread out so it's just you and your tank within 20 yards of each other, use of Runes would be insanely good with Prayer of Mending. The Priest lays one on the tank before the pull, and the first hit from the boss will send it straight to you. As soon as you go 1500 mana below full you eat a Rune, you get healed for all the life loss and the Prayer goes straight back onto the tank. There's something dirty about an instant speed Flash of Light which doesn't trigger GCD and costs -1320 mana.

Later all - I'm off to Felwood.

Yesterday i lost Blessed Adamantite Bracers to another paladin due to my indecision since i already have Vambraces of the Naaru. Are they really an upgrade? Since i will exchange 8 mp5 and 3 int for 21 crit rating, 7 healing and 13 stamina, my head hurts from too much thinking about it :S.