Malleus

Has this changed recently? Last I looked, only HL10 and 11 had no downranking penalty. HL9 is used because its penalty is only 4.3%.

Here's the charts I have:
All figures are the percentage of the coefficient that would be applied; thus, HL4 gets 50% of 0.714(+heal).

 

Palados

If you loose to quite worse geared pala in similar assignement quite often, I can see only one reason - you use reactive healing. Aka wait for target to get damage and after that decide what to use FoL7 or HL11. Right? If it's true, you should really change your healing style for stream-healing with cheap spells (absolutely no matter how much HP your assignement has) with occasional big heals when needed. Reactive healing is both VERY dangerous in late T6/swp and let streamhealers half-top your target, as it was stated few posts before, thus wasting your mana.

 

Sigilmir

Actually, sort of. It varies, but I mostly heal "reactively". Depends on my mood really :P

 

Nubs

I just got back into raiding after a nice vacation, and with that there has been a few changes to healing. The one that I am curious about is stopcasting macro's.

Are they still useful now, or should I just go back to button mashing with my face?

 

MasterDecoy

In SWP, healing the MT is no longer healing the damage he takes like in T5, nor is it providing just the hps that is needed by precasting sufficient heals. In my opinion it is more of using the whole mana you can get to provide sustained hps over the curse of a fight. Healing MT at Brutallus would just mean to cast as much as you can afford, with max hps during stomp, so that you exactly go oom the time the boss dies (or the timer is up).

@Malleus: Spell damage and healing - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft on the one hand would make you believe, that the Spell Level of HL9 is 61 (on level below the next HL is learned), wich you could use in the formula to geht (61+6)*70=95,7%, which is the number you provided in your chart.

Mods like Dr. Damage on the other hand, make you believe that there is no penalty for HL9. Using the other formula from Formulas:Downranking - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft will geht you Min(1, (60+11)/70) = 100%, which would result in no penalty at all.

So has anyone done some actual testing. Rank 9 formerly was a book drop from AQ20, and therefore doesn't fit right into the skip 8 Levels scheme of HL (22,30,38,46,54).

@Nubs: Stopcasting is not required nor useful in a HL/FoL macro atm. You actually can use the normal spell like the former stopcasting macro, pressing at the right time, or you could go back to mashing if you want to let your keyboard know that healing is important to you. I still use Stopcasting in my mouseover cleanse macro, so when I press the button my cast is canceled in order to dispel.

 

Darios

Since my guild only recently started Bt and MH my gear isn't more than T5/MH and Bt drops. meaning no T6 has dropped for me yet.

Still, after reading through this topic and asking around i've started to collect a bit of spellhaste for later on when I get T6. I am currently at:

68 Spellhaste rating
around 2300 healing (fully buffed)
30.75% crit chance when fully buffed with (Brilliant Wizard oil, Adept's elixir, elixir of draenic wisom, BoK, AI, GotW)
100 mp5 while casting (or 122 mp5 when i'm using the BoJ libram)

Amoury Dareios

I was wondering wether it is actually useful at this point to use the haste items I have (i.e. the PvP spellhaste trinket and Dawnsteel Bracers) or to stack some more +healing while waiting for T6 and to gem the T6 items with 10 spellhaste gems.

For the record, i'm mostly using FoL in Bt/MH (about 75% of my total healing) and/or HL11/9

 

Nubs

From what I've read the general consensus on spell haste was as long as you're not sacrificing your mana regen and overall +healing for spell haste that it was nice to have. I personally run around with 2152+healing, 24.62% spell crit, 92mp5, and 122 spell haste, and I do just fine using the normal consumables with no shadow priest. Mind you this is 5/5 Mount Hyjal 8/9 BT progression and I too am only using my T6 gloves atm, gotta love random loot.

So best thing you can do is mix your gear around, test it out, find the mix that works for you.

 

Joasuf

Spell haste as lots of others have posted can be useful but isnt at all necessary in BT/MH (and its still debated for SWP).

I only have the Kalec ring with spell haste and have not so far seen any need to try and improve it other than to wait for T6 belt/bracers/boots (we are 3/6 SWP but the drops have been shitty).

I personally favour +healing, Mp5 and Spell crit over spell haste and all my yellow sockets are +spell crit gems. As others have said though its pretty much down personal preference and healing style as long as you dont run oom. For fights like the council I run with about 34% Holy crit (and another 5% HL crit from 4T6 and 200 Mp5 while casting) buffed, anything less than that and with the amount of healers we run with I would be struggling to find any mana towards the end of the fight.

 

Darios

i'm currently going at 30.75% spellcrit when buffed and I'm having trouble on some mana heavy fights to not to go completely oom. I'm thinking there might be a slight problem with other healers in our guild though, since they just seem to be at 100% mana at the end of the fight without a shadow priest.

I seem to be taking a heavier load in healing than others, for they just stand around during bossfights at time O.o

So taking the other healers into account, I think i'll get some more spellcrit/Mp5 to maintain my mana pool a bit more instead of going for spellhaste at this point.

 

Nubs

Yeah Darios if thats the case then more regen would be a good thing in your situation. Also it wouldn't be a bad thing to bring that up with either a class rep, officer, or raid leader. If the guild is trying to progress then it needs everyone working, the days of standing around alt tabbed while in a raid ended with the release of the expansion.

Also Darios I'm curious if you have WWS parses of these other healers who aren't actually doing their job. That way you have some solid proof to provide to people.

 

Malleus

Broadcasting Recount activity reports for single fight to the raid channel would do the same job, if you can't get WWS working for you.

 

Darios

unfortunatly I do not. I am also an officer of this guild. and my guild is in a raidforce with another guild, and it's the other guild's healers I have problems with. The other officers of my guild know of this problem but have so far never reacted to it even though I've mentioned it some times.



Well, thanks for the many advices and I'll see if I can get some this sorted out or do a bit of gear tweaking.

 

Nubs

Good luck mate.

 

nilum87

I've been looking through the EJ forum's and wowhead comments for the [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] and I haven't been able to find any concrete answers on it's value as mp5. I've seen some absurd numbers such as 38mp5 with a spell cast every 2 seconds, but I don't feel that his can be right. This is especially confusing due to the 2% listed proc chance, but other information pointing towards a 5% proc chance with a 45 sec internal cooldown.

I'm switching from my [Justicebringer 2000 Specs] to the [Mask of Introspection] and with all sockets properly filled the ZA helm grants about 12 healing and .1% spell crit chance more than the engineering helm, but if the IED is really worth 20+mp5, that means that it would blow any helm without a meta gem slot out of the water.

Can anyone comment on the value of the IED as mp5 or point me in the right direction?

 

Xetron

My WWS Reports show about 1 proc per minute which nets 300 mana per minute or 25mp5. That is on Felmyst and Brutallus trys with mostly spamming the tank with HL Rank 9 every 2 seconds. The proc though is very unreliable, i can have no proc for 4 minutes and after that every 45 sec for the rest of the fight.

 

nilum87

Dur. I didn't even think of checking my guild's last WWS Report. Thanks for the idea.
FYI, my guild is starting ZA and my gear is at the same lvl (full Kara and one ZA piece).

I looked through all the boss fights (totaling 28'30") and only saw 15 procs for an average of ~13mp5. You're right that the proc is unreliable.

So that brings up the question of ~13mp5 or 12 healing and .1% spell crit. I'm assuming the mp5 is better since at my level or raiding I'm about 80/20 Fol/HL with HL4 to keep light's grace up and HL11 to recover from burst damage.

 

MasterDecoy

In our Kalecgos trys and kill the wws shows values between 18 and 35 MP5 for our paladins IED. And whilst INT is not what you should aim for, 12 extra INT is nice to have indeed. The most procs I saw were 7 in 301 seconds, which doesn't negate the 45 seconds internal CD, expecting one proc in the beginning, and then every ~50 seconds. But would be extremly unlikely with only a 5% proc chance.

While you could say the proc is unreliable, it provided at least 18 MP5 in my logs, which is enough to warrant its use in my opinion.

Just manually browsed the log for a Kalecgos Try, where i got 7 procs in 5 Minutes ~35 MP5 out of it. If there was an inner CD, it would be no greater than 15 seconds. It also isn't that random. The second healadin got 7 procs, too, the third only got 6 procs, which still is 30 MP5.

6/3 22:13:56.187 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:14:35.140 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:14:56.578 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:15:13.734 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:15:28.578 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:16:19.250 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0
6/3 22:16:39.609 SPELL_ENERGIZE,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,0x0000000000939388,"Tarali",0x511,32 848,"Mana Restore",0x1,300,0

 

Endoscient

Kalecgos is horrible for WWS since it will only show what happens when you are in the same Realm as the person who is /combatlog'ing.

[Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] is an amazing meta gem. It has a 5% chance to gain 300 mana currently, it has been buffed a few times. Yes, you can get absurdly high mp5 values on it. I find it on average gives me 45-55mp5, I have the WWS reports I can dig out if you want. I would be extremely hard pressed to use any helm without a meta socket.

 

MasterDecoy

I think the WWS Realms Bug with Kalecgos is fixed. Otherwise, since non of the other two palas were logging, you would have to assume that they had actually more procs, which would result in way more manareg.

But I agree with Endoscient, I would not use a helm without it, nor would I socket the 26 Healup gem.

 

Cosi

First off I'm going to apologize if this question is asked somewhere in this thread already. I try my best to keep up with it but I'm just a lurker.

Anyway in T5 content I used to have a really high ratio of FoL/HL (IE: 60% fol/40%). I'm now in a guild clearing MH/BT and moving in the SWP it swung the other way. For instance last night I think I had a ratio of 71%HL/29%FoL on Illidan.

When I look at the WWS of me vs the other paladins I notice a mixed batch -- I'm probably the most avid HL spammer around. We have no "HL down rankers" while we all down rank to certain levels none of us use HL exclusively.

So my question is in late BT and early SWP what FoL/HL ratio should a paladin have?

 

MasterDecoy

It's depending on the situation in my opionion. With Kalecgos, I cast FoL a lot during the beginning, where all 4 groups are in the dragonrealm, and there is an abundance of heal available. When healing the Burn target on Brutallus, i too cast FoL fairly often, because im in the tank group for devotion aura, and there is a phase where FoL is sufficient for the burn targets. I FoL during stomp if no one burns, too. So I don't think the ratio would help you.

 

Cosi

I really only ask because it feels like I'm massively over healing the tanks, yet when I down rank or FoL their health dips low. In the end I don't go oom, but I do everything I can to keep from going oom.

Sometimes it is alright to heal the raid a bit as well but most of the time again the tanks health will dip too low for my liking. I usually start off Kalec with 1 or 2 HL11's then FoL until the first portal hits because I'm instructed to run into the first portal with the OT. Once I hit the demon realm usually FoL won't cut it because there is only 3 healers in there including myself. After that it really depends on how fast/slow the portals are going out. I try to keep a mental count of how many healers are in a realm with me and change my rotation accordingly.

 

Acryon

I usually see it like this. As long as the targets you are healing are alive and you don't go oom, you've done your job. In fact, I'd say the closer to oom you are at the end the better, because if you end a fight with no mana then you wasted no mp5.

 

Nekokun

I recently started healing raids and such and even more recently my gear hit the level where I am now (or should be rather) fully capable of healing the main tank.

Now no matter what I try I always seem to get into problems doing that.

My basic healing repetoire consists of:
FoL rank 7
FoL rank 6
HL rank 9
HL rank 10

Now I tried spamming FoL rank 7 like mad, but the tank snapped like a twig, so then I tried spamming HL, it worked better. Alot. But I managed to get OOM in under 30 seconds.

I was wondering if there is anyway to avoid these problems, perhaps through gear perhaps through certain ranks of spells.

And stream healing, how do you figure out what rank of spell to use? (I'm sick of reactive healing)

(Oh yeah, I'm not enchanted as of yet, working on it though)

My gear: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n+Ring&n=Qaela

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

MasterDecoy

@Cosi: While tankhealing, WWS shows an overhealing between 40-60% for me, depending on the encounter. On hard-hitting sunwell encounters it's more about using all your mana to provide steady hps with some extra mana for stomp on brutallus, not about beeing low on overheal. Having to heal a Group on Kalecgos due to one group healer having technical problems, i droppt down to 7% overheal and ended up top on effective healmeters. It's all about the assignments.

@Nekokun: As statet above in this thread, haste isn't at all required for any encounter. It's nice to have as it comes with gear, but there is no need to specifically gear for it. Your gear looks fine, i personally would geht some enchants, and change the meta as soon as you meet the requirements of IED.