The small bit of threat that it reduces is more valuable than any other option. I understand that our heals are threat-efficient, but if you tell me that you never, ever pull healing agro, then I am calling you a liar. The small chance that subtly provides in not pulling agro, outweighs the extremely small benefit of any other enchant. Sure, we can blame it on the tank, (and we may be correct) but I prefer to do what I can on my own. If subtly allows me to safely heal sooner, or harder with out pulling agro, then I don't see any other option as beneficial.

Do you have a grasp of fundamental threat mechanics? For reference: Kenco: A Guide To Threat.

Let me help you:

Healing operates on a global threat mechanic. This means the static threat value assigned to your heal is divided by X number of mobs currently on the table. It also only contributes threat for the value of hitpoints that you restore on your target.

Healing innately contributes 50% of its value as global threat. e.g., a 8k heal results in a base 4k global threat value, before buffs/talents/class modifiers/etc.

Paladins have a static 50% modifier on all their heals as well. This is stacked on top of innate healing threat. Note that all stacking threat modifiers are multiplicative, this in turn means every heal cast by a paladin (before buffs/etc) results in a .5*.5 or 25% global threat value.

The threat cloak enchant is a 2% modifier. Stacked on top of a paladin, this means your heal now contributes .25 * .98 or 24.5% global threat. Yes, a .5% difference.

Let's look at this in practice. Now, no paladin ever pulls on a single mob pull unless your tank is window licking. Let's assume it's your typical 3-mob pull in Heroic Idaho. Let's say for the sake of argument, you were window licking and didn't heal your tank before the pull, and you drop an 8k heal as he runs into the next pull. You have effectively done 667 threat to each specific mob, if you didn't have the cloak enchanted. With the cloak enchanted, you have effectively done 653 threat to each specific mob. That is a difference of 14 individual threat, which is so far in the weeds, that it makes absolutely no difference in any decision logic on your part as a healer.

The moral of the story is, if you heal, and a mob hits you on the pull, it's VERY LIKELY your tanks didn't pick it up. If you pull while healing in a normal 5-man, it wouldn't have mattered whether you had a cloak enchant or not. Let's say you dropped 8k healing bombs (that, NOTE, actually HEALED for full every single time it landed) for 30 seconds - this would result in a net save of ~210 threat on each mob by the time it's all done (assuming all three mobs died at the same time).

A completely trivial amount.

I agree, all of the cloak enchants are trivial. I feel as though I benefit the most from a threat reduction. I understand your point, I just disagree with you.

Actually, it is the worst option. In the 1 in 1000 chance you pull healing aggro, you can always Bubble/BoP.

At least armor or a resistances do something useful.

If you dont pull agro, then why would you need that extra armor? You see my point?

On the subject of the armor enchant, I agree. It is rendered inconsequential if you aren't getting hit. In any event, I view the armor enchant in the same way as I see the Subtlety enchant: it is such a low number that it most likely won't make any kind of noticeable difference or impact.

Back to your original post, I'm sure I've pulled aggro at one point or another, sure. But such occurrences are so rare that I can barely remember them myself. Even then, I still see the tank at the center of the issue. Take Illidan for example which, judging from your Armory, you have ample experience with yourself. We typically have a protection paladin tank him due to our MT no longer needing anything. During the Phase 2 to 3 transition as he is landing back on the grate, I have seen other healers (say one of our restoration shamans) pull healing aggro as he is cleaning up the residual raid damage from the Flames phase. Even then though, our prot paladin quickly re-establishes threat before any damage can be done. Even then, I've only seen it happen a few times at most.

As such, I merely see it as part of the tank's responsibility. Healers have to heal and even if they do pull aggro, it shouldn't give them enough threat on the mob to the point where the tank can't take it back quickly enough (unless the healers were standing right on top of the said mob). In the end, the subtlety enchant is better than nothing I suppose, I just personally prefer the resist one.

I think that all healers should be have Subtlety. That would negate your argument here. Bubbling would also increase the chance that another healer would pull agro over you. Does that mean that you should unbind or take bubble off of your hotbar?



Yes, I will say again that the numbers are small, I agree with you. All of the enchants are of small to almost no use. I think that subtly is the best choice for healers over + armor or resist in most cases, as we aren't supposed to be taking damage at all. Having that little bit of less threat will help the tank pull the mob of of you faster. That seems to me to be more important than having a tiny bit more armor so that you can take the beating better.

Either way this is a pointless argument over a near pointless enchant. I will not say that I am definitely correct or incorrect, I think that it is how you look at it.

I don't think you fully understand. The cloak enchants may be of very little value to use, but Subtlety is actually of no use at all. It's a poor enchant to go with all together. Everyone who has disagreed with you has backed it up with pretty accurate statements here.

One good example (probably already mentioned) is Felmyst. I usually help pick up the skelleton adds with RF up while healing at the tank spot. It helps keep them off the squishy healers since they are in much more danger of dieing to them. Anything that is going to reduce my threat (Subtlety or Bracing Earthstorm Diamond) I try to avoid. I even cancel Salv on myself for that fight if it gets put on me. It's about buying time for someone to pick up adds using the tools given to you. Why would you intentionally reduce your effectiveness to do so?

Hi all,

Firstly, many thanks to Silmeriah and Malleus for their discussions on flasks - that's a topic that's been discussed lately in guild.

The reason for my post is fairly simple - I'm wondering if any of the readership has a WWS that features similar assigns for a paladin healer to the following Wow Web Stats

Notes on assigns/etc: P2 sole single target healer on Loura (second flame to be killed), with two druids providing HOT's to smooth out the bumps. By the end of phase 2 I was pretty much OOM, switched to flash rank 6 while regenning P3, and then healed the lock tank (Ugark) on P4. I'm looking at Sunwell fights and my current sustainability, and am looking for ways to maximise my up time - for example, on P2 Illidan with a second single target healer, probably a DS priest using greater heals, switching to rank 7 or 8 Holy Light rather than using rank 9 for the entirety of the phase, or continuing to use rank 9, but inserting more flash heals into my cast cycle.

If anyone has further comments with regards to gear, consumables etc, I'd love to hear them. I'm currently grinding materials on alts for leatherworking and blacksmithing.

My personal thoughts:

Regarding your gear, I personally really enjoy the [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone]. I am almost always in the tank group (thus no mana returns from a restoration shaman or shadow priest) in order for someone else to benefit since I can do just fine without. The mana gains from using the alchemist stone are incredible and it is definitely something that I highly recommend considering you are using the BT exalted trinket (which I'm quite skeptical of).

As has been mentioned here before, you might want to consider slowly building more spell haste at the expense of some spell crit. I have, for the most part, almost completely forsaken Flash of Light (except in certain scenarios) and resorted to Holy Lights. Assuming you downrank appropriately, you should see better healing performances overall. Since reverting to mostly HLs, I've been able to employ the 2-piece T6 bonus much more than when I was primarily using Flash of Light, which in turn has resulted in increased mana regains for me.

I agree with you completely regarding downranked Holy Lights - I'm mostly looking to get that balance between the efficiency as a pure spell that rank 9 has, with the demands of maintaining my mana pool over the full length of a healing intensive fight (going OOM before the end of a fight never helped anyone after all).

Alchemy's something I've considered, but my usual group assignment leads to me being placed with 1x Hunter, 2x Locks, and 1x shadow priest if 3 show up to raid. I'd thought I'd bring better group synergy with haste drums than I would with the extra mana regen from the stone. Our healer group normally consists of 2 x COH priests, 1 x DS spec priest, 1 x shadow priest, and 1 x resto shaman.

My main reason for using the ashtongue trinket is as something of a placefiller for the moment, being as the violet eye pendant's broken for healadins until 2.4.3. It goes off quite regularly, but over the course of an entire Illidan fight on Thursday it only healed for a total of 10k. I had considered either the tome from Hex Lord Malacrass or the memento of Tyrande as replacements, subject to drops.

You really can't compare Illidan to any SWP style fights when it comes to benchmarking your mana regen for SWP. I really support getting an alchemist's stone in SWP, as it allows you to be more aggressive in what you do, and bridge the gaps when you can't be as aggressive. There's no worse feeling in the world then watching your tank die because you couldn't heal the same way you did at 5% than you were at 95%.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my P2 Illidans typically go the same way. I tend to heal very aggressively by nature, so I tend to come out of P2 with minimal mana. You could make this more efficient by using flashes when your tank isn't in much risk. I pretty much solo heal one of our flame tanks with one hot stack. I pretty much just sit in this phase using FoL during the first kite path, and then HL9'ing the remainder of the phase after the tank cycles back (the hell if I can tell where he's standing in all that green crap, heh). I typically get one hot stack on my tank, sometimes two on our forest nights.

It's hard to really suggest sustainability hints in SWP since it varies so much from boss to boss. Kalec has revitalize, Brut is a heavy multi-healer/overheal scenario, Felmyst and Twins are SA hacks, M'uru depends a lot on what you're doing, and I can't comment on KJ. I pretty much have a specific healing pattern for each specific boss, and stick to that.
Drums of battle on healers is really over-rated. Outside of Brutallus, you really won't see a huge boon from your side of things. The fact that the drums take GCDs is also a serious downside as a healer (most SWP fights you will be pressed for GCDs, especially as a paladin). They're nice to have, but it's pathetic compared to an alchemist's stone on a paladin.

If you MUST choose, then take alchemy over leatherworking. If you want the best of both worlds, take both.

Also as a note: If you don't have access to a memento, any of the battlemaster trinkets are very useful alternatives as well, given the amount of raid damage being thrown around in SWP. I personally prefer the haste one myself, but the healing one is good too, depending on your style.

The Tome of Diabolic Remedy is also very competitve. It's great if you know you need to heal a spike with little assistance otherwise just macro it to your main spell and forget about it.

Compared to Momento and the Alchemist trinket its fairly poor though.

Another reason to go leatherworking might be to be able to craft [Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard] which is fairly amazing. Be prepared for some QQ from your resto shaman though if you are allowed to bid against them.

Actually, the stone is better on average. Memento yields a maximum of around 26mp5 where the Redeemer's Alchemist's Stone gives an average of 40mp5 using Super Mana Potion (more if you decide to take the healing hit for a Fel Mana Potion once in awhile). There's no reason not to be an alchemist for this trinket though. Gathering professions are for your alts.

I could be way off here, but aren't most guilds pairing paladins with an spriest now (I'm still trying to convince mine :\)? If you're sitting in the spriest group (something like Spriest, RSham, HPal, Lock, Lock), it seems like Leatherworking would definitely be worth considering if one of the other four group members did not have drums. Plus [Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard] Of course, finding a global cooldown for drums really does suck.

Yes, good point. [e] Whoops, chests don't need sunmotes. Blah, caught before I could edit it out :V

Yes, although obviously raid dependent. I probably shouldn't have said drums were over-rated, but simply left it at alchemy is a step above leather working if you are forced to choose. There's no reason not to have both though. Also worth noting is that the haste buff from drums is also fairly lengthy, so it is slightly applicable to paladin healing if you're already stacking haste.

On that note, excuse me while I go finish buying the mats to power level leatherworking... =)

The SW chests don't require Sunmotes to make, only the gloves.

Are you kidding? You have more crit than I do unbuffed, and IMO you need the MP5. Get the boots and Mana Prime on your chest (as you should have) and you're set.

Also, if you can't get 30 badges for two Lionseyes in a week you are slacking badly.

Thanks Malleus,

you've been most helpful.

And as a matter of fact I totally forgot badge gems. Just checked and I have 94 badges and I was wondering how to use them.....oh well thats just me and my empty head.

Hi Elduce, just a little advice i tell my pallys often in my guild. Kharazan ring isn't the best option for a paladin, it spent stats in spirit that we dont need and it lacks mp5. If you dont mind doing a little pvp go for [Vindicator's Band of Salvation], its almost the same amount of healing and 6 mp5.

Also, seeing your neck i wonder: is the proc of the neck of sunoffensive really worthy in a palladin? I like new [Guardian's Pendant of Salvation] cos its the same mp5, a little less healing, a lot more stamina (convenient since im starting BT/MH) and it has a yellow socket to gem for crit. It is another good item from pvp that can be a replacement if you are not raiding in T6 content. What do you think?

Ignore the post.

PvP gear really helps for Najentus, Especially if you are under 9k hp, so you can take a full tidal shield burst and take a aoe spine while the rest of the raid heals up.
Also having the 2 minute pvp trinket will help out progression on Hyjal for Rage Winterchill and Archimonde.

I don't think the stamina is relevant. I have zero PVP items and only one +6 Stamina gem left in my kit, and I'm over 10k health with just Kings and Fortitude. That's all you need.

As for the proc: Ducon is Aldor. The necklace is therefore worth about 110 +heal withal. I'd call that worth it.